How to continue multi tabling, registering for SnG's when you're suffering variance?

How many people do multi table SnG's(MTT) or MTT's and when running cold and just in general things aren't going well, how do you keep motivated to keep your session going?

I struggle for the best part to put in a session of more than 30 SnG's and that's is dependent on how good or bad I run.

For example, yesterday I started up my usual 4 tables then added two more and usually play with around 8-10 table at any given time and add one if I bust but even this is quite un-motivating at times. So I started my usual game, TAG and within 2hands on 2 tables I busted out after getting it all in post flop when I was a favorite so within 5minutes of starting I was already busted in 2 tournaments so this instantly put me in a bad way and thinking it was just going to be one of those nights....again.

Sure enough, keeping 8-10 tables going playing for hours on end to bubbling or being sucked out on seemingly tournament after tournament I lose to motivation to carry on and results just wasn't going my way. After about my 14th tournaments and with several bust outs I just wanted to session over with after 1hour. I some how managed to dwindle down to 4 tables and did start tilting slightly, raising when I shouldn't be, calling of bad cards etc. Anyway, in the end I managed to finish 4th in a 45man and a couple of 2nd's in STT's, overall making my losses to arouind $2.00 after $20.00 investments.


What I want to know is how do people who multitable so many and play for hours on ends with sessions of 100+ tournaments cope with this ? How do you find the motivation to actually keep registering for a tournament when you feel a bit low? How do you remain positive when actually you feel 10 tournaments in a row you don't cash and lose when a favorite, I find it such a struggle and would like some advice..I never really felt like this in cash games and could happily grind for hours on end even if in a big downswing, it just didn't have the same effect however when it comes to SnG's/MTT's after 2/3 hours and 20 tournaments later I just want to stop playing yet don't find it a problem with cash games even if losing the same amount of money?

Any advice?

I think part of the psychological part of the problem between your SNG/MTTs and cash games is that when you lose your stack in a cash game, it will just auto-reload(if you have that enabled) whereas if you lose your stack in a tournament, then the window closes on you and you have to open a new tourney, so it's more obvious to you that you lost.

As far as not feeling like playing, no one is making you play but yourself. If poker isn't a main source of your income, and you don't feel like your head is in the game, then by all means, just turn off the computer, you're probably just going to do more harm than good to your roll. I know some people that say that are going to play 3 hours a night no matter what because that is the schedule they have...that is dumb in my mind. I even heard/read that Phil Ivey will leave a game within the first 10 minutes of playing online if he feels like he isn't playing his best or his head isn't in the game, because what positive thing is going to come out of that.

Downswings are never fun, obviously, but you'll come out of it. If you see when doing post-session reviews that you're constantly getting it in with the best hands and just getting the raw end of the deal, then there's nothing you can do about that, luck will turn around. But letting yourself tilt and get to the point where you're playing angry and trying to recover, that has disaster written all over it. Also, with tournaments, remember that your ROI is never going to be extremely high, many good grinders having between 10-20%.

Good luck man, hope you snap out of it

Thanks for the reply. It actually isn't that I'm forcing myself to play, I usually play every other night, some times everynight for a couple of hours. The thing is, SnG's seem to take a weird effect and maybe it's like you say you can't just reload. I think it's the thought of loading up another table when you feel you're being sucked out of every hand in other tournaments and then to "start" again from low blinds in a another tournament is hard for me to remain positive to go through it all again, if that makes sense?

I enjoy both SnG's/MTT's and cash but I like the potential SnG's offer and personally think it's easier way of building up a roll rather than grinding the 2nl for example.

I only play when I feel like I want to and to be honest like the other night I can really be up for it prior to starting. I get my first 4 tables loaded and get ready for a long grind then 5minutes later I bust in two in a row and that's it, I just want to stop instantly stop and call it a night. I know this isn't the right attitude too take but I wonder how other people deal with it? I check other players results and see they can also start a session and lose 10 even 20 without cashing but still their grind continues and they eventually take a decent score to be up for the session. I understand it's most likely variance but just wish I could stay that motivated to continue loading the tables but I find it really really difficult, any ideas on how to conquer that?

Oh and thanks, yeah hope I can snap out of it. I'd love to play a much longer session in SnG's like I could in cash..just harder in my opinion if on a downswing.

Have you tried not watching the table after you get it all in? If you win, it'll pop back up when it's your turn, if you lost, you shouldn't really notice for awhile. That's just in my experience, when I find a table that I lost in, several minutes ago, it doesn't affect me like when I watch myself get sucked out on.

That wouldn't work if you're tiling, which I feel like most people do.

Riemannian man said:

Have you tried not watching the table after you get it all in? If you win, it'll pop back up when it's your turn, if you lost, you shouldn't really notice for awhile. That's just in my experience, when I find a table that I lost in, several minutes ago, it doesn't affect me like when I watch myself get sucked out on.

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This does help me too. As soon as you see opponent's cards you have all the info you need so why watch?

Most of the time I watch the hands where I got it in bad though. You're already expecting to lose, and if you win.... Well lets just say it's like the opposite of tilt for me. More like a rush! Plus it helps you to remember the bad beats you put onto others more than the other way around.

DetroitJimmy said:

Most of the time I watch the hands where I got it in bad though. You're already expecting to lose, and if you win.... Well lets just say it's like the opposite of tilt for me. More like a rush! Plus it helps you to remember the bad beats you put onto others more than the other way around.

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That is just going to keep encouraging you to get it in bad rather than work on not making those plays anymore.

absoluthamm said:

That is just going to keep encouraging you to get it in bad rather than work on not making those plays anymore.

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No it won't. Not for me anyway. Plus there are times when the games I play(STT's) require me to go all in with some less than nice hands late in game. I am supposed to, even though I get called by better hands sometimes. It is good for me to see that even though we both made correct decisions pre-flop, the best hand don't always win.

It seems a better idea to focus on the many times you suck out than the other way around. I think it is just human to remember the suck outs people put on you than the other way around.

In a perfect world we wouldn't worry at all about either and just strive to play the best you can. Don't let the outcomes of one hand affect your play. Then again you don't want to take all the fun out of poker.

I still have a ball when I shove 99 from UTG with lets say 5BB's and bust someones aces with a river nine. I mean what a rush to come back from the dead in an SNG. It's what keeps me going sometimes. Instead of remembering the times it's the other way around.

ramdeebam said:

So I started my usual game, TAG and within 2hands on 2 tables I busted out after getting it all in post flop when I was a favorite so within 5minutes of starting I was already busted in 2 tournaments so this instantly put me in a bad way and thinking it was just going to be one of those nights....again.

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I used to have one of those nights sessions...I have since developed "goldfish memory" - I'm not sure who "they" are, but they say when a goldfish blinks, it's like a new day

I found that now I take a 5 second mental review of the takeout hand - did I get in ahead? Did I make a call I shouldn't have? If I see something wrong, I make a note and move on. If I don't see anything wrong, I shrug, blink, open a new table. The key being to not let one bad tourney (or two or three) effect how you feel about what you're doing on the other ones. When you are sure your play is solid enough to win, then when it doesn't it must just be variance.

I graph my progress at the end of sessions and now find that I often have mini one of those nights stretches in the middle of a session. But because I'm not dwelling on it when it happens, I don't even notice it until afterwards and I end up with a good session overall...and I enjoy the entire session....and I play until I no longer feel like playing or life interrupts.

The other reason I graph my progress is to watch for changes in the direction of the graph...is it still moving more up than down? If not, I better take some time and make sure I haven't changed something that's adding to the variance.

Generally speaking, good tournament players are often busting out when getting it in ahead (when they're playing well although also obviously dependant upon the situational influences that are affecting our decision(s) ).... so it's really no big deal. I try to focus on whether or not I'm playing well... more so than 'running well'.
... but
If I've planned a schedule of 15-20mtt's for a day & I'm running bad at the start of my session & "I'm getting a bit bummed 'and' am letting my emotions affect my play" (< this part obviously being key... alot of the time it doesn't affect my emotional well-being) I'll just make a change in plans for the day. I don't keep playing if my heart isn't into it.

ramdeebam said:

I check other players results and see they can also start a session and lose 10 even 20 without cashing but still their grind continues and they eventually take a decent score to be up for the session..

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Sometimes they don't 'eventually take a decent score'.. It's the nature of SNG play. Doesn't matter how good they are... even if they're 'the best'.

The MTT grind is much worse imo.... great players will often have months in succession with poor overall results (could quote a few examples of players I follow & rail but not going to because CC links come up near the top on google searches, lol... and have had it happen before.. right MVP? lol)

Thanks for the replies.

Pokerpete, I might be that sort of person with a goldfish memory that is I do tend to do that myself and check if I got it in good or not. It still kinda de motivates me having to reload another table when it happens even if I do get it in good or not, is that normal?

PO: That's the thing. When I see a winning good player losing so many and then even a session, it makes me wonder how they carry on playing, I know they will know it's variance and in the long run will win but even if I was a winning player by quite a bit I think I'd still find it very hard. Like I said to pete, even if I get it in good - it still is very soul crushing to continue and kind of gets me down and then that's when I will start calling looser. I quite often start out solid even folding middle pair UTG in the early stages and it only takes 2 or 3 tournaments for me to bust when I was favourite for me to play so much worse, I just don't know how to get over it. My heart starts to beat, my blood boils (and it isnt the money at all) It's the fact I lost to someone who got it in bad and when it continues tournament after tourny I think it's tilting for me, advice on how to get over that would be good and to remain positive regardless. Like I say, even if I know I got it in good, it still effects me - that can't be normal?

ramdeebam said:

I check other players results and see they can also start a session and lose 10 even 20 without cashing but still their grind continues and they eventually take a decent score to be up for the session. I understand it's most likely variance but...

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ummm.wait a second here...are these other players also playing MTT SnG's?
When I sit down to play, I reg for 5 tables and start grinding. The tables pop up one by one, soon a five are up and running. One by one I get booted 25th or 12th or whatever and open a new table up keeping the five running at all times. But what about the ones where "it all works"? My aces hold. By c-bets are folded to promptly, etc. Well those tables stay up for about an hour until I reach final table and ITM. I might have 3 or 4 go this way, but what about the other 1 or two table spots? Well I keep getting done in by variance and keep opening new ones that stay for a while and then cycle again...so, yes, by the time I work my three or four tables to a decent finish, I've started and lost a bunch of tables...remember with MTTs you only need a few good finishes to make up for a boat load of buyins...1 first place is $21.60 so I can lose 8 others during the time it takes me to win that one and end up with a net win for the session. So yes, I might have 10 or 20 losers while I'm working a couple of good ones to the end.

ramdeebam said:

Pokerpete, I might be that sort of person with a goldfish memory that is I do tend to do that myself and check if I got it in good or not. It still kinda de motivates me having to reload another table when it happens even if I do get it in good or not, is that normal?

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ah...you missed what my point was...I pause briefly to think about the knockout: Did I do that right? If the answer is no, make a mental note to NOT do that again and move on(reload a table). If the answer is yes, then it's time to "blink"...in other words "*blink* hey, look. It's a brand new day. I think I'll load a table..loss? what loss? I didn't see any bad beat..."... I just load a new table that fills in that hole on my screen and I keep grinding, playing the hands in the tables in front of me, completely blocking out what that yo-ho just pulled on the table that's no longer there.

ramdeebam said:

I just don't know how to get over it. My heart starts to beat, my blood boils (and it isnt the money at all) It's the fact I lost to someone who got it in bad and when it continues tournament after tourny I think it's tilting for me,

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Take a deep breath, blink, and move on..it happens...it happens a LOT..but the INDIVIDUAL LOSSES don't mean squat...it's that next good solid play that puts you in the best spot to take down the money...that play CAN'T be made on the table you just closed but IT CAN be made on the next one you open.
Take last Saturday for instance... I played 17 SnGs in a sitting. It took 2 maybe 2 and half hours. I lost 14 of those game...how? well I can't be sure but I'd guess that some I shoved QQ into AA and lost...happens. Some I may have shoved KK and lost to A2 soooted on the turn river 3 & 4 after flopping a K 7 5...maddening right? Nope. Happens. Variance. Doesn't matter. What mattered was three of my games ended ITM, 2 first places and one 2nd... $38.25 in buyins got me to the three winning ones for a total of $55.62...a net win of $17 bucks...and I had a blast doing it because I didn't dwell on the 14 train wrecks where I finished anywhere between 22nd and one heart breaking 6th on the bubble....instead I really, really enjoyed those first place finishes.

ramdeebam said:

My heart starts to beat, my blood boils (and it isnt the money at all) It's the fact I lost to someone who got it in bad and when it continues tournament after tourny I think it's tilting for me, advice on how to get over that would be good and to remain positive regardless. Like I say, even if I know I got it in good, it still effects me - that can't be normal?

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Umm.. I think it's very normal but it does seem weird when you look at it from the 'Spock' (StarTrek) angle... I mean we should be delighted we were getting it in way ahead (or we trapped villain into getting it in bad, etc. etc.) but then we have the opposite emotional reaction based on stuff we have no control over.
I just try to work on it 'alot', reminding yourself that you're playing good.. & to just 'let it go' with the stuff you can't control. Easier said than done but with practise it gets better. 'IF' it gets me down I just stop the session. I don't play if I'm feelin' crap.
I know of some very successful midstakes MTT players who have months of downswings (one guy I know of who's been -ROI for 2011 but has well over 20,000 mtt's played & is + profit over $250k but is 'negative' for 2011. I know he's down about it, saying stuff like he'd be happy if his 80/20's hold even half the time, etc. It's not that unusual).
I believe there's a cash game player here on CC who began playing poker from a small freeroll cash, then played SNG's for a good stretch, did good at them & then had downswings where they lost ~1/4 of the bankroll they'd built up (don't quote me.. this is a guesstimate but I think it's close??). They stopped playing SNGs & now they often refer to SNG & MTT as 'donkaments' (not sayin' any names here, lol).

I know how you feel. I play almost exclusively MTT and a few SnG and the Variance is crazy and takes its toll. Unfortunatly, there is nothing you can really do about getting sucked out in a tourney it happens and many times it is not a terrible play as everyone is under the rising blinds gun...

I think the thing to do is if I feel myself tilting is to walk away for a bit... I find that if I want to play for a 4-5 hr session and hr 1 I am tilting I need to cool down before I put more money in.

This will help me in a few ways.
1. I stop enrolling in new games so I can just foucus on the 1 or 2 games I am still in. If I stop my tilt then I continue on as planned, if not then:
2. After I am out of all of my tables I walk away I collect myself, remind myself about variance and reveiw my play to see if I could have played differently.
3. I usually do some physical activity or something to take me away from the computer and dont think about poker for awhile so I calm down.

All this usually takes about 1 hr or so. (Some times less... I too strive to have the memory of a goldfish).

Once I am back in the right mindset I play again. It is important to always put money in when you feel good (dont put mad or scared money in a tourney) This is important as in order to be profitable in MTT it is VERY important that you minumize your C-Game and take advantage of the oppertunites when they come around.

The thing to remind yourself is with MTT all it takes is a few good cashes and your BR is big. To keep a healthy BR however you need to do what is nessesarry to cash well when you have the oppertunity. Making it just into the money is still an oppertunity lost. You need aim to make it to the final table or top 4-5 percentlie (depending on structure), any less is oppertunity lost.

Keep good BRM and if need be step down your buy in if your roll wont support your current level. Your BR should not feel much different loosing 10+ MTT in a row. If you keep your head and play well you will bounce back. Variance runs Good too so fight through the bad and minimise your losses.

For reading I highly suggest Tommy Angelo's "Elements of Poker" He talks a lot on cutting out/improving your C-Game. This is important in all poker but in MTT the more loss and negative variance you can reduce yourself the better your ROI will be. Plus if you can keep a calm attitude when you get sucked out you wont be mad at poker which will make it fun.

I have recently moved to sngs and playing 50-80 a day and really I find it much harder to cope with the swings, bad beats and the coolers. I am used to 10nl and 20nl in cash games but for some reason I get pissed off a lot more in sngs where I only lose 2$ maybe 3$. I have yet to adjust controlling my emotions but I am working on it, I guess with time it gets easier.

I think part of tilt in sngs is the fact that you get to play a lot more fit or fold, thus making it possible that you get coolered many more time in a row than you would in a cash game. For example, you are on the buble, blinds pretty high and everyone is about even, you have to force yourself to push rather marginal hands and you get in a lot of flips, 70/30s and 60/40s, when you lose a couple in a row it feels really bad, even tho losing 3-4 flips one after the other is really nothing when it comes to math, it is very common, however brain doesn't work that way and you get to tilt.

I read an article where two opposing players played their hands in complete visibility. The player that lost was the one who ot tired and miscalled a FH of their own to a pocket-derived FH.

I can remember this Japanese gameshow where the contestants where required to prove their pain tolerance. After a few hours of torture (cold water being sprayed up their nose, etc,.) the last two were stationed in a freezer-type enclosure.

The person who won was the one who refused the chicken noodle soup that was offered---food for thought!!!

eqgh5uea said:

I read an article where two opposing players played their hands in complete visibility. The player that lost was the one who ot tired and miscalled a FH of their own to a pocket-derived FH.

I can remember this Japanese gameshow where the contestants where required to prove their pain tolerance. After a few hours of torture (cold water being sprayed up their nose, etc,.) the last two were stationed in a freezer-type enclosure.

The person who won was the one who refused the chicken noodle soup that was offered---food for thought!!!

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What does that have anything to do with this thread?