Help! Table full of LAGs and Fish!

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tehbloke

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And I am NOT getting any good cards. It was early stage of the tourney and I tried to see the flop cheaply with connectors and trash (K7o because I was going to tilt), took some liberty to call for implied pot here and there, but I kept getting raised big so I have to fold and fold and fold. Once I had Ace and on the BU, and I tried to put in 3BB raise to isolate (there were 6 players in pot) and then 1 went all in and another called! So I kept out of the way and then as it turns out, I would have won with the Ace (one has pair that didn't hit, and the other got 82o trash and won the pot)! Somehow I was left with 900 on the BU again w Q4s, and there were 6 players in the pot whom I can't bluff because they would call, and I didn't fold because I was on the BU. Then the flop came Q and 2 low cards, no flush draw poss, and the same fish from earlier open from UTG 3 with a small bet, MP1 called, the other folded. I went all in with TPLK hoping to use my image against the LAG so they would fold and isolate the fish whom I thought has nothing and got busted out. His kicker is 7 and it came on the turn.
I didn't think I did right there - too many players in the pot and anyone of them could be holding a top pair with a kicker higher than 4 - but like I said, I was on tilt.
Please tell me what I should do in future when this situation comes up. Should I be patient and wait for something big to come, or should I try to steal and how should I go about doing this??? The BB is very small and nobody folds to 3BB/4BB. 5BB would be 1/6 of my stack and I can't continue if I don't hit on flop.
 
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Eclipsenz

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If there are maniacs at the table, it sucks cause you can't play the game you want to play.. but you just have to tighten up and wait for them to calm down, I personally wouldn't of gone all in with Q4s either


Be patient, if they see you raise and call all ins with pretty good hands they will stop being so trigger happy I've found.. also when you raise have an idea who might shove back and his stack size cause if hes shoving ATC I'd generally raise with hands into these people that I plan to call an all in with most of the time..
 
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Sori

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And I am NOT getting any good cards. It was early stage of the tourney and I tried to see the flop cheaply with connectors and trash (K7o because I was going to tilt), took some liberty to call for implied pot here and there, but I kept getting raised big so I have to fold and fold and fold. Once I had Ace and on the BU, and I tried to put in 3BB raise to isolate (there were 6 players in pot) and then 1 went all in and another called! So I kept out of the way and then as it turns out, I would have won with the Ace (one has pair that didn't hit, and the other got 82o trash and won the pot)! Somehow I was left with 900 on the BU again w Q4s, and there were 6 players in the pot whom I can't bluff because they would call, and I didn't fold because I was on the BU. Then the flop came Q and 2 low cards, no flush draw poss, and the same fish from earlier open from UTG 3 with a small bet, MP1 called, the other folded. I went all in with TPLK hoping to use my image against the LAG so they would fold and isolate the fish whom I thought has nothing and got busted out. His kicker is 7 and it came on the turn.
I didn't think I did right there - too many players in the pot and anyone of them could be holding a top pair with a kicker higher than 4 - but like I said, I was on tilt.
Please tell me what I should do in future when this situation comes up. Should I be patient and wait for something big to come, or should I try to steal and how should I go about doing this??? The BB is very small and nobody folds to 3BB/4BB. 5BB would be 1/6 of my stack and I can't continue if I don't hit on flop.


If there are 6 people in the pot, you should be raising much more than 3xbb, many say 3xbb + 1 additional bb PER limper. This may help narrow down the field if you have a strong hand (not sure if you hand was strong you only mentioned you had an ace), but this is something to consider.

As for the Q4 hand, just because you are on the button doesn't mean you NEED to call with a weak hand.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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you need to be raising bigger, x3 plus x1 for each caller to the raiser.......very difficult to bluff fish/lag's....you need to wait until you get good hands in good spots and nit it up when you dont.....they are quite easy to play against if you can get the stratagy right.....gl
 
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tehbloke

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If there are maniacs at the table, it sucks cause you can't play the game you want to play.. but you just have to tighten up and wait for
But what if I nit it up, and then when I finally get the cards and I play back, then there were no callers because they know I'm the nit?
If there are 6 people in the pot, you should be raising much more than 3xbb, many say 3xbb + 1 additional bb PER limper. This may help narrow down the field if you have a strong hand (not sure if you hand was strong you only mentioned you had an ace), but this is something to consider.
As for the Q4 hand, just because you are on the button doesn't mean you NEED to call with a weak hand.
You see, I only had A6d and was hoping they realize I'm a nit give it up to me preflop. If someone reraises, I would assume they have a better Ace and instant fold. I thought it was a way to earn some easy chips without risking too much of short stack. Is this a sound strategy or totally bogus?
 
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Sori

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Since you stated that it is early in the tournament, I don't think the chips in the middle will be worth it. You aren't going to get all of those limpers to fold without a large bet, and the risk/reward ratio is not worth it as the majority of the time you will still get a caller- and then your mistakes could very well be compounded (trying to steal the pot on the flop, you get raised and now you wasted a lot of chips).
 
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GWU73

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Save the fancy plays for after the worst players have busted, the blinds are expensive or you are very short stacked. Like other have said: nit up. Make plays with your big hands, you will get action. Tables change so often, it is likely no one will notice how tight you are. If you must play loosely, do it on the button or cut off, preferably limping behind or as first in and raising. Raising with weak aces against likely callers is suicide.
 
frozensprx

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yeah this situation is tough, but it seems like a bunch of beginners are playing way too many hands and it is in a tournament so you can't always afford to sit around and wait for premium hands. If I was you, I would be shoving when a lot of limpers are in a pot. Most of those LAGs won't call a shove (unless they have premium and you will be busted most of the time) but it is a necessary adjustment to their style of play. Personally I have done this and noticed that even though they are beginners they seem to respect the shove and I picked up quite a bit of blinds + limpers. It is actually not a positive EV play cuz when they do call you then you will be out but EV doesn't always matter in tournaments, because sometimes things are highly situational.
 
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Mr_Slip

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I dont think it is they 'respect' the shove, its that they are 'scared' to get knocked out early and have to go home with their tails between their legs...
 
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