Help me improve my MTT game

MoeJurphy

MoeJurphy

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I'm a regular MTT player a cash at least my BI 3/5 times (no major cashes). I struggle to get deeper into the cashes, my game for the start and mid stages of the tournaments always seem to be fine but, it's when I get onto the final 300/3k people left I find myself in situations I shouldn't be trying to double up and keep a fair sized stack for the bigger blinds.

Is it a mistake to open up your range a little and play more aggressive when trying to get a deep stack for final table or should I tighten my range even more than I was playing through the earlier stages of the tournament? With such big blinds compared to my stack it pushes me to make shoves or calls I wouldn't normally do if I wasn't worrying about stack sizes.

Not sure if this will make sense of anybody but any comments welcome :)
 
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Hello no matter whater you will be chip leader or short stack on the final table you have to win :)I have never won a tournament being chip leader starting final table.Usually im 5-6-7-8 however 1 all in you win and go to 3-4.I play only strong hands from early position and shove the CO BU if all players are fold to me with A+ K10+ Q10+ 22+.In the midle on the tournament the game is same.
 
MoeJurphy

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Hello no matter whater you will be chip leader or short stack on the final table you have to win :)I have never won a tournament being chip leader starting final table.Usually im 5-6-7-8 however 1 all in you win and go to 3-4.I play only strong hands from early position and shove the CO BU if all players are fold to me with A+ K10+ Q10+ 22+.In the midle on the tournament the game is same.

Thanks, I think my range is too wide in the mid stage and should probably tighten up and look for good spots to bluff. Do you play loose or tight in the first stage of the tourney before or when antes just hit?
 
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I'm a regular MTT player a cash at least my BI 3/5 times (no major cashes). I struggle to get deeper into the cashes, my game for the start and mid stages of the tournaments always seem to be fine but, it's when I get onto the final 300/3k people left I find myself in situations I shouldn't be trying to double up and keep a fair sized stack for the bigger blinds.

Is it a mistake to open up your range a little and play more aggressive when trying to get a deep stack for final table or should I tighten my range even more than I was playing through the earlier stages of the tournament? With such big blinds compared to my stack it pushes me to make shoves or calls I wouldn't normally do if I wasn't worrying about stack sizes.

Not sure if this will make sense of anybody but any comments welcome :)


3 bet jam over loose openers but balance yourself well so that it throws your table off whether "this time" you have a monster or a marginal but still try and make sure your marginal will have some equity for the times you do get called. don't be afraid to jam into the BB with very very light hands when it gets folded around to you, alot of the time you're gonna get folds, other times you're gonna get called super light and have a good opportunity to double and then there's those rare times where they are gonna be holding a monster but you could still suck out on them.

what sort of mtt's are you playing?
 
PapaC

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Sounds like you have a good game already. 3/5 is very good. Just keep doing what you are now and just move your play around every now and then and see what happens. If it don't work don't use it anymore. If it does, play hell out of it. But you know what, we never know whats going to happen tomorrow. Cards change every day. That's why you should test the water, and see what all will work for you. Hands on is the best way to learn. GL to you
 
smallfrie

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I personally think you are putting way too much focus on yourself and your range. I think if you refocus on spots... I am talking 3 bet spots, blind steal, re-steal spots etc. making notes mental or otherwise paying more attention to vpip of all players whether via a HUD (hate HUD's think they should be banned) or mentally or on paper tracking vpip and everything else others are doing at your table that spots will become more apparent and you will become more comfortable acting on the spots even when you are not comfortable with the cards you are holding. I think twitch is an excellent resource with many great mtt players streaming and you can watch and learn what they are doing that works and it is free. If you want my pick for the player that has the most overall learning friendly stream, and streams many mtt's and explains why he is doing what he is doing PM me. If not just go find successful players on twitch and watch.
 
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MoeJurphy

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3 bet jam over loose openers but balance yourself well so that it throws your table off whether "this time" you have a monster or a marginal but still try and make sure your marginal will have some equity for the times you do get called. don't be afraid to jam into the BB with very very light hands when it gets folded around to you, alot of the time you're gonna get folds, other times you're gonna get called super light and have a good opportunity to double and then there's those rare times where they are gonna be holding a monster but you could still suck out on them.

what sort of mtt's are you playing?

I play mainly turbos, I play on PS my A game is in HU SNG and HU tournements, but im trying to improve my 6-9 table tourneys.
I like knockout tournaments and I dabble in the higher field PS tournements 'The Big' 'The Hot' etc.
 
MoeJurphy

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I personally think you are putting way too much focus on yourself and your range. I think if you refocus on spots... I am talking 3 bet spots, blind steal, re-steal spots etc. making notes mental or otherwise paying more attention to vpip of all players whether via a HUD (hate HUD's think they should be banned) or mentally or on paper tracking vpip and everything else others are doing at your table that spots will become more apparent and you will become more comfortable acting on the spots even when you are not comfortable with the cards you are holding. I think twitch is an excellent resource with many great mtt players streaming and you can watch and learn what they are doing that works and it is free. If you want my pick for the player that has the most overall learning friendly stream, and streams many mtt's and explains why he is doing what he is doing PM me. If not just go find successful players on twitch and watch.

Yeah, to be honest that's something I'm going to put the time into getting better at, I might be focusing on myself so much to where I'm letting good spots pass me :)
 
MoeJurphy

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Took everyone's advice shooved into the BB Q9s deep into the hot $11 i was 23/1.5k got called by BB AKo and I missed everything, I hate poker.
 
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Took everyone's advice shooved into the BB Q9s deep into the hot $11 i was 23/1.5k got called by BB AKo and I missed everything, I hate poker.
you hate poker because you got it in against a better hand and lost?
 
toots babos

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Took everyone's advice shooved into the BB Q9s deep into the hot $11 i was 23/1.5k got called by BB AKo and I missed everything, I hate poker.

in your opening post you were saying that it was when you got down to the last 300/3k(top 10% of field remaining) was when you were struggling so that's where my advice was leaned towards.

you were 23rd out of 1500 players so surely at that stage the BB can barely be 600 chips, standard play there if you're going to play your hand would most likely be a raise/fold situation or if you get called to re-evaluate on each street
 
DaveE

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Mid stages, unless you have a monster that you obv want to get in pre, judge your actions by relative stack size. IE get aggressive vs stacks where a loss is not going to hurt much if you lose and double them up, be cautious vs stacks that can do major damage to your stack.

Keeps you out of trouble and usually builds your stack, sometimes in a big way.
 
MoeJurphy

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Mid stages, unless you have a monster that you obv want to get in pre, judge your actions by relative stack size. IE get aggressive vs stacks where a loss is not going to hurt much if you lose and double them up, be cautious vs stacks that can do major damage to your stack.

Keeps you out of trouble and usually builds your stack, sometimes in a big way.

Yeah I completly agree with this, I was loosing interest during this stage of this particular tournements due to non related poker things. But I didnt check his stack size compared to mine, shoving in this spot I thought i was up against small stacks so it wasn't a big risk, due to just not paying attention and mis reading the situation I shoved into a big stack like an idiot!
 
DaveE

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People miss this aspect so often...for example somebody's notes on me were "shoves 33" ....no note that I was in middle position in an unopened pot with 4 BBs.

Anyway, look for spots in late position.
 
MoeJurphy

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People miss this aspect so often...for example somebody's notes on me were "shoves 33" ....no note that I was in middle position in an unopened pot with 4 BBs.

Anyway, look for spots in late position.

I was in late position but regardless the whole hand was a bad spot.
 
PershingSt

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I think you have the general idea down of mtts , you are definately supposed to loosen your range as blinds go up and antes come into play. Maybe you are focusing a bit too much on cashing around the bubble and not taking advantage of some good situations that come up . You have to also remember volume in mtts is a huge factor , just focus on always trying to chip up throughout every stage of the tournament .
 
MoeJurphy

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I think you have the general idea down of mtts , you are definately supposed to loosen your range as blinds go up and antes come into play. Maybe you are focusing a bit too much on cashing around the bubble and not taking advantage of some good situations that come up . You have to also remember volume in mtts is a huge factor , just focus on always trying to chip up throughout every stage of the tournament .

Yeah I'm studying alot more and reading as much as I can to try and up my game, haven't made a final table in a while!
 
MoeJurphy

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Right heres an interesting PF hand, I was chased off the hand PF action went bet, call, raise, shove I folded pocket 7's

pokerstars Hand #143044226263: Tournament #1356232180, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (75/150) - 2015/10/30 17:19:02 WET [2015/10/30 13:19:02 ET]
Table '1356232180 25' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Kobasteris (2920 in chips)
Seat 2: sk345di (2996 in chips)
Seat 3: MoeJurphy (11065 in chips)
Seat 4: flash_guiz (11861 in chips)
Seat 5: alytus73 (12513 in chips)
Seat 6: SLAYA69!! (2755 in chips)
Seat 7: harty927 (3400 in chips)
Seat 8: malefactor9 (2320 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: AltreRun (2757 in chips)
Kobasteris: posts the ante 20
sk345di: posts the ante 20
MoeJurphy: posts the ante 20
flash_guiz: posts the ante 20
alytus73: posts the ante 20
SLAYA69!!: posts the ante 20
harty927: posts the ante 20
malefactor9: posts the ante 20
AltreRun: posts the ante 20
malefactor9: posts small blind 75
AltreRun: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MoeJurphy [7h 7c]
Kobasteris: raises 150 to 300
sk345di: folds
MoeJurphy: calls 300
flash_guiz: raises 450 to 750
alytus73: folds
SLAYA69!!: folds
harty927: folds
malefactor9: folds
AltreRun: folds
Kobasteris: raises 2150 to 2900 and is all-in
MoeJurphy: folds
flash_guiz: calls 2150
*** FLOP *** [7d 9h 6d]
*** TURN *** [7d 9h 6d] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [7d 9h 6d 7s] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kobasteris: shows [Qs Qh] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
flash_guiz: shows [Tc Ts] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
MoeJurphy said, "foled 77"
Kobasteris collected 6505 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6505 | Rake 0
Board [7d 9h 6d 7s 2h]
Seat 1: Kobasteris showed [Qs Qh] and won (6505) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 2: sk345di folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MoeJurphy folded before Flop
Seat 4: flash_guiz showed [Tc Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sevens
Seat 5: alytus73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SLAYA69!! folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: harty927 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: malefactor9 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: AltreRun (big blind) folded before Flop

Did I make the right move PF?
 
toots babos

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Looks pretty standard to me although given that the 4 bet jammer had 20 bigs I would have been tempted to iso jam over the top to try get into a potential heads up pot flipping for some extra chips but you'd need alot more info on your opponents before deciding whether or not to iso jam
 
MoeJurphy

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Looks pretty standard to me although given that the 4 bet jammer had 20 bigs I would have been tempted to iso jam over the top to try get into a potential heads up pot flipping for some extra chips but you'd need alot more info on your opponents before deciding whether or not to iso jam

Yeah I was very tempted to either shove over the top of the 2nd raise but as there was a player behind me I thought play it safe and fold as there was a recent table change and had no info on the table whats so ever.

Obviously the way the flop and turn came I wish i got it all in but I feel I made the best move considering the situation.
 
PershingSt

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Right heres an interesting PF hand, I was chased off the hand PF action went bet, call, raise, shove I folded pocket 7's

PokerStars Hand #143044226263: Tournament #1356232180, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (75/150) - 2015/10/30 17:19:02 WET [2015/10/30 13:19:02 ET]
Table '1356232180 25' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Kobasteris (2920 in chips)
Seat 2: sk345di (2996 in chips)
Seat 3: MoeJurphy (11065 in chips)
Seat 4: flash_guiz (11861 in chips)
Seat 5: alytus73 (12513 in chips)
Seat 6: SLAYA69!! (2755 in chips)
Seat 7: harty927 (3400 in chips)
Seat 8: malefactor9 (2320 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: AltreRun (2757 in chips)
Kobasteris: posts the ante 20
sk345di: posts the ante 20
MoeJurphy: posts the ante 20
flash_guiz: posts the ante 20
alytus73: posts the ante 20
SLAYA69!!: posts the ante 20
harty927: posts the ante 20
malefactor9: posts the ante 20
AltreRun: posts the ante 20
malefactor9: posts small blind 75
AltreRun: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MoeJurphy [7h 7c]
Kobasteris: raises 150 to 300
sk345di: folds
MoeJurphy: calls 300
flash_guiz: raises 450 to 750
alytus73: folds
SLAYA69!!: folds
harty927: folds
malefactor9: folds
AltreRun: folds
Kobasteris: raises 2150 to 2900 and is all-in
MoeJurphy: folds
flash_guiz: calls 2150
*** FLOP *** [7d 9h 6d]
*** TURN *** [7d 9h 6d] 7♠
*** RIVER *** [7d 9h 6d 7s] <font color='red'>2♥</font>
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kobasteris: shows [Qs Qh] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
flash_guiz: shows [Tc Ts] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
MoeJurphy said, "foled 77"
Kobasteris collected 6505 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6505 | Rake 0
Board [7d 9h 6d 7s 2h]
Seat 1: Kobasteris showed [Qs Qh] and won (6505) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 2: sk345di folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MoeJurphy folded before Flop
Seat 4: flash_guiz showed [Tc Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sevens
Seat 5: alytus73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SLAYA69!! folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: harty927 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: malefactor9 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: AltreRun (big blind) folded before Flop

Did I make the right move PF?

We only count our equity when the money goes in , the rest is luck . So of course folding here was correct. Just because you would have gotten lucky does not change the decision .
 
Vadim Kudimov

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I want to ask you what style play? I think you tight player. I can tell you, if you play at PokerStars, then unfortunately I have there the same situation. the final stage I come with a short stack. Try changing the poker room, such as a full tilt. There are tournaments where you will feel better and more successful.Or change your tactics of the game, and expand the range of hands.
 
MoeJurphy

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I want to ask you what style play? I think you tight player. I can tell you, if you play at PokerStars, then unfortunately I have there the same situation. the final stage I come with a short stack. Try changing the poker room, such as a full tilt. There are tournaments where you will feel better and more successful.Or change your tactics of the game, and expand the range of hands.

I would say my play style is definitely aggressive, I tend to play looser than I would like. Tightening up my play would definitely make me run deeper in the long run. I tend to make too many bluff mistakes at bad times in the tournaments I play. But I mix up my play as much as I can compared to the other players play style at that time.

I have tried most of the poker rooms out there as far as sng and mtt i much prefer PS, Cash games there are probably some better sites out there, I've had goos success in partypoker cash games but I don't like the tournament schedule compared to PS.
 
STL FAN

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Hello glad to meet you and hope your journey is filled with success. I play SNG’s and MTT’s I have experienced, still experiencing, the same part of this journey. However, the fields of MTT’s that I play are much smaller but having to improve to go deeper is what everyone is learning to do or should be learning to do.

I have been working on going deeper without having to have cards in most situations because often more pots won without showdown has a positive effect on image, fear, and other opponents waiting for the better situation, looking to catch against me but will give up regularly when they do not catch, which affects where they will fold as some examples.

My opponents are conditioning themselves to do this unconsciously without thought because of how they play certain stages of MTT’s or even their overall philosophy of approach to their game. When I see these negative centralized spots in my opponents I have improved my non-centralized spots in my game by understanding my opponents individually as well as a collective group from this dynamic. What I am attempting to accomplish is make their thought process shut down from my opponents using unconscious thought to make decisions. Then having their conscious thoughts shut down from not having this part of their game mastered as well as they thought from prior experience in these situations that requires conscious decisions, what happens, pressure from not knowing the proper play now becomes conditioning from prior experience of folding, making a mistake as a couple of examples.

Then when they push back I am anticipating them to do so, why would they not push back I am taking dead money more than them, they begin to push back because of becoming reactive, then I will test this central part of their game when they start to test this part of my game. The better players will know to test me and the experience tells them to do this because of positive feedback when three betting more pre-flop as an example. I then four bet, attack the central part of this three betting to find out if they are willing to test me back or blink and give up there or in later streets of play. Each situation, each tournament is different and what happens does not happen systematically, but how my opponents, react, play back becomes systematic for them, this gives me starting spots to either attack or take in more information from which to attack for future situations.

The less experienced players will fight back but I know they are weak and four betting their game is a positive play that allows me to keep the lead from changing my play to change the dynamics of my opponents play by how they react. Actually my opponents willingly condition themselves to react the way they do because of their prior experience, I just am more willing to expose them in their non-centralized parts of their game as some examples.

Everyone will be different in these areas and what I have relayed covers more than I have defined because of how vast poker is to master, how important it is to use trial and error, take notes, and apply the information. Understanding my centralized spots, non-centralized parts of my game helps me to understand the same about my opponent. It allows me to build a mental model of my opponent(s), with threshold and ceilings of play from strengths and weaknesses of myself as well as my opponent(s). It has taken time to see small improvements in my game from understanding centralized and non-centralized spots in people, but it is worth the time to study because of where my game was weak in my SNG and MTT game. Poker is a game about people that happens to be played with cards.
 
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