hand selection in sit n gos

ok guys i need help with hand selection in the STT sit n gos. i got third in a sit n go last night, but the next few games i've playing on i've lost. So heres the thing. I feel i need to work on my hand selection. I know that the strategy articles will say play tight at the beginning or play more hands since the blinds are small or play premium hands. Now from my experience i know that those first 30 to 40 hands in a sit n go are crucial. I mean those blinds will eat you up. If i sit there and fold and fold and wait for premium hands. Well actually thats a bunch of crap. Thsoe premium hands dont come around to often so you got get in there and play some hands make some rases and take down some pots. Another thing i know that agression does cause you to win. Heres what i do personally i need to know what hands do you guys keep and throw away. for me what i do is i will throw a way hands like 63off 72o A2-10off most of the time some times i will limp with A2-10suited i'll fold small pairs sometimes limp with them but mainly fold and raise and sometime limp with medium pairs and of course play that hands that everyone else will play when the come around like KK QQ JJ AJ.... I guess what i wanna wanna know is how do you guys build that big stack in that first half hour of the sit n go. What hands are doing it for the Ax hands. Are you limping with these. Raising it up with suited or unsuited conectors.. Am i throwing away too many small aces. am i raising too much.....I feel like i have good hand selection i use common sense most of the time when playing (62off..yuck...A4 fold bad kicker...KQoff fold ive read not to play these hands too much....78off..i read these are better to play when suited)....help me outs guys please..thank you for reading this long post..

There is no need to build a big stack in the beginning of a tourney. If you are playing marginal hands out of position when the blinds are still 30 or 40 then you are either going to take down a really small pot or build a large pot where you are not that much of a favorite to win, if at all. You have to play super tight at the beginning, and I mean SUPER tight. the only hands I will play from EP, and early middle position, are the premium hands. I even fold KQ suited because there are sooo many people behind me. I will play 10's or J's but if I get raised I will fold, unless its a min raise, and If there are multiple callers dont bet the flop unless I hit a set or an over pair. the only time I will play medium suited connectors, small pairs, or suited A's in the beginning is if I am on the button or cut off and there are multiple limpers. There is no need to take much risk at all at this point because you have so much time to wait for a hand. Often times when the blinds get up to be 50-100 I will not have played a hand so I am down to around 1200. By this point there should be no more than 7 people left and you have an idea of how most of them play, so open up and hope to double up or win a few smallish pots which should bring you up near 2k.

for me what i do is i will throw a way hands like 63off 72o A2-10off most of the time some times i will limp with A2-10suited i'll fold small pairs sometimes limp with them but mainly fold and raise and sometime limp with medium pairs and of course play that hands that everyone else will play when the come around like KK QQ JJ AJ....

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You seem to like limping a lot, do not do this if you want to play a hand raise.

When deciding what hands you want to play depends on so many different factors. Your cards, stack size, your opponents stack size, your position and how your opponents are playing. These are the things you must consider when you decide how you play your hand. Playing your opponent is as important (if not more) as the cards you hold. I cannot give you a definative answer here of what hands you should and should'nt play as every game is different and you need to adjust your game to suit the table.

Tight is right in the early stages, I usually find myself with around about 10-12% VPIP for probably the first 40-50 hands - just use that time to feel out your opponents and learn their plays, then loosen up as the blinds increase and the players decrease.

laidlow said:

Tight is right in the early stages, I usually find myself with around about 10-12% VPIP for probably the first 40-50 hands - just use that time to feel out your opponents and learn their plays, then loosen up as the blinds increase and the players decrease.

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I pretty much follow the same strategy.

thunder1276 said:

There is no need to build a big stack in the beginning of a tourney... You have to play super tight at the beginning, and I mean SUPER tight... There is no need to take much risk at all at this point because you have so much time to wait for a hand. Often times when the blinds get up to be 50-100 I will not have played a hand so I am down to around 1200.

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Theres no way i would want to be at the 50/100 mark with only 12 bb(as you said in your example)If been there before, it just puts me in to bad a spot. if some raises 3Xbb and i have a good hand, all i can do is push. I should be at maybe 20 to 23BB at this point. If i dont then i was just being way to passive. and I just dont win when playing this passive. I know the blinds arent worth picking up towards the beginning, but picking up the other players 3x the big blind raises is. I usually find when i apply the super tight strategy i lose. That is just too much folding doing the first 35 to 40 hands. I find that when when i do money a sit n go, its when i play more loose and bully the table around a little bit. I really think that since sit n gos are only about an 1 or a little longer those first 30 to 35 minutes are crucial, if i've just been folding during that time. the blinds are just gonna eat me up and i have to pretty much play one-bet poker. Who else think playing this tight is wrong for a sit n go..I would say this strategy would be correct maybe for a larger sit n go or a MTT. With the sit n gos you got get in those pots and steal from your oppenents and of course fold when you think your beat, but i dont know..I have the agression but often i get stupid with it i need to fine tune that agression becasue passive play just loses for me

Benjamin5566 said:

Theres no way i would want to be at the 50/100 mark with only 12 bb(as you said in your example)If been there before, it just puts me in to bad a spot. if some raises 3Xbb and i have a good hand, all i can do is push. I should be at maybe 20 to 23BB at this point. If i dont then i was just being way to passive. and I just dont win when playing this passive. I know the blinds arent worth picking up towards the beginning, but picking up the other players 3x the big blind raises is. I usually find when i apply the super tight strategy i lose. That is just too much folding doing the first 35 to 40 hands. I find that when when i do money a sit n go, its when i play more loose and bully the table around a little bit. I really think that since sit n gos are only about an 1 or a little longer those first 30 to 35 minutes are crucial, if i've just been folding during that time. the blinds are just gonna eat me up and i have to pretty much play one-bet poker. Who else think playing this tight is wrong for a sit n go..I would say this strategy would be correct maybe for a larger sit n go or a MTT. With the sit n gos you got get in those pots and steal from your oppenents and of course fold when you think your beat, but i dont know..I have the agression but often i get stupid with it i need to fine tune that agression becasue passive play just loses for me

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nobody is saying fold every hand or play passive. Just play hands in position for cheap unless you got a monster.

Benjamin5566 said:

Theres no way i would want to be at the 50/100 mark with only 12 bb(as you said in your example)If been there before, it just puts me in to bad a spot. if some raises 3Xbb and i have a good hand, all i can do is push. I should be at maybe 20 to 23BB at this point. If i dont then i was just being way to passive. and I just dont win when playing this passive. I know the blinds arent worth picking up towards the beginning, but picking up the other players 3x the big blind raises is. I usually find when i apply the super tight strategy i lose. That is just too much folding doing the first 35 to 40 hands. I find that when when i do money a sit n go, its when i play more loose and bully the table around a little bit. I really think that since sit n gos are only about an 1 or a little longer those first 30 to 35 minutes are crucial, if i've just been folding during that time. the blinds are just gonna eat me up and i have to pretty much play one-bet poker. Who else think playing this tight is wrong for a sit n go..I would say this strategy would be correct maybe for a larger sit n go or a MTT. With the sit n gos you got get in those pots and steal from your oppenents and of course fold when you think your beat, but i dont know..I have the agression but often i get stupid with it i need to fine tune that agression becasue passive play just loses for me

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I dont enjoy being down to around 12 BB but if thats the way it happens what am I gonna do. I do steal and make raises and 3bets but not nearly as often from EP. The first 30 minutes is only crucial because you just have to survive it. you dont want to be knocked out when there is no need to be when you are not that big of a favorite, so just sit there and wait for the best spots since you have tons of time left. I do get knocked out in the first 20 hands or so every once in a while but that is only when I get coolered. If being the aggressive maniac works for you then great, but I find that when I try to make things happen is when I start to lose.

Theres no way i would want to be at the 50/100 mark with only 12 bb

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welcome to SnGs

thunder is giving you pefect advice IMO.
Play super tight for the first few orbits, from whatever position, just to gauge what you opponents are like eg rocks, fish, whales (massive fish) etc.
Your HUD should also help you with this.
Once you have a few orbits you can open up your hand range in Late Position, but not stupid hands like KTo that are easily dominated but hard to get rid of post-flop.
Being at 1.2k with 50/100 blinds isn't terrible, and with a super tight image your shoves to steal should work for the first few times unless you run into a monster, or a donkey who hasn't been paying attention (likely).
Don't shove over the top of someone unless you have a massive hand. You have little fold equity (900 more for them to call) and they most likely have a hand they like (or they wouldn't have raised).
Open shoving is almost always better than shoving over the top of a raise.
Once the blinds raise again and stacks are about equal, you need to play good bubble strategy acording to ICM and you're probably push/folding most hands.

As you get more confident with shove/fold play, you will begin to relish the times you have 12BB in the mid-game, because you will find you are able to pick off the aggressive early stack-builders.
SNGs almost always come down to shove/fold, no matter how big your stack is. Reason being, even if your stack is large, you will be faced with all-ins from or against shorter stacks.

Shufflin said:

As you get more confident with shove/fold play, you will begin to relish the times you have 12BB in the mid-game

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+1
You need to embrace shove/fold even enjoy it, if you can't then SNGs are not the game for you.

So can you recommend any good book to polish shove/fold late game play?

Nargil said:

So can you recommend any good book to polish shove/fold late game play?

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Considered by many to be among the best books on SnGs is [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Sit-Go-Strategy-Collin-Moshman/dp/1880685396"]Collin Moshman's Sit 'n Go Strategy[/ame]. I've read it cover to cover several times over, and it's really helped me get the hang of push/fold strategy during high blind and short-handed play.

Nice coincidence then. I just ordered it 2 days ago.