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StatusOmega525

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First off, I'm not sure where on this forum is actually the right place to post questions on specific hands, so I apologize if I have this in the wrong place. If there is any specific place designated, let me know. Thanks!



26 left in freeroll. Stack is roughly 32,000. Have less than half the table covered.
Blinds are 500/1000

I pull 10/Js in middle position. Folds to me, I call for 1000.
Cutoff calls.
SB raises to 5000 (fairly agressive, I've seen them raise questionable hands)
I call.
Cutoff folds.
Flop comes As 4d jd.
SB times out, and checks.
I bet about 3500
SB tanks a little, and calls.
Turn comes 10d.
SB tanks a little more, checks.
I shove with middle two pair
SB calls, shows A/Kd.
River is 9h, I die.

I know that most of my game is still fairly new, and I have a lot of places to improve, but what I'm trying to accomplish most with this post is basically to get used how to handle hand reviews and learn what sort of information I need to be looking for in them.

In all honesty my shove was probably hasty, with the possible flush or Ax hanging around out there, but I was trying to balance their aggression through the tournament with the possible backdoor full house

I definitely feel like I made a few mistakes in this hand, I'm just trying to lock down exactly what they might have been. If anybody has any thoughts on what issues I may need to stomp down on the most, I'd appreciate it.

GL on the tables, all.
 
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RocwX

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The bet on the flop was very small if you were trying to make them fold a better hand. You gave them good enough odds to chase a flush and someone holding an Ace would never fold there. Also, you have to think what kind of hand would call you when you shove on the turn. Flushes and straights would definitely call. A few Ax combinations. I think you're mostly way behind if you get called with such a wet board, so I'm not a fan of the shove.
 
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mara2259

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A classic example of how not to play. The decision to join the game with such a marginal hand 10Js can be explained by the presence of a position. All other actions are not logical: raise after the flop with an average pair and a weak kicker ??? All-in on the turn with an ace and three cards of the same suit on the board and also quite possible straight draws - this is tantamount to suicide. The opponent also made a mistake trying to set up a trap with a toppar and a strong kicker and almost got into it himself. As usual it happens - the river decided everything. Good luck!
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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Preflop: limping is a big mistake. Much better is to raise and try to take a pot now. If someone calls, you have initiative postflop, which something nice to have too. Why give up all of these advantages and limp? Also, raise from SB is too big to call. Your decision at this point is to shove or fold. Your hand is obviously too weak to shove, so it's just fold.

As played, flop: there is no reason to bet with second pair, mid kicker. Villain could have weak Ax, that he decided to check, and strong pairs like QQ and KK. With all of those hands he will call your bet, as well as with his slowplayed sets, like AA and JJ. Sb will only call with a hand stronger than your hand, and will fold all hands weaker than your hand, which makes it terrible bet. Correct play is to check. Also, when you bet on such a draw heavy flop you should bet bigger. If you bet 0.8pot, there is a high chance that villain will fold draws and even QQ, KK.

Turn: Again, for same reasons it's check. Sb can have flush, straight, sets and better two pairs, all of which will call you. So why bet when you can't get any value from your bet?

I'm sorry, you made 5 big mistakes in one pretty obvious hand. Maybe poker is not for you.
 
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StatusOmega525

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Thanks for all the replies. Its obvious there is a hell of a lot I should be taking into consideration that I'm not. Looking at the hand through the filter of the feedback, it is easier to see where a lot of the mistakes were.

Preflop- even looking back I'd still have to say I'm comfortable with my decision to get involved in this hand. The opponent had shown a decent history of raises with hands worse than 10/J suited, and I figured I'd have position on at least the SB after the flop hit. I also figured that suited connectors would cover a wider range of flops, giving possible straight and flush opportunities. Limping may not have been the best option, but I feel like raising or shoving at that point would invest too much for 10/J suited, and I really didn't like the idea of folding, simply because of the history I had with this particular opponent. I'll have to re-evaluate how I view those situations.

Flop/Turn- Yeah, now that its been pointed out, its completely obvious that this was all just extremely bad poker. What made it worse is that I had gotten so far in the tournament by making similar decisions. On top of all the things I wasn't considering, being able to run so far into some of these tournaments may have been reinforcing bad habits that I really need to kick.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, and hopefully because of it at some point down the line I'll be able to post more promising hands.

You may be right. Poker may not be for me. But I'm not ready to agree with that just yet.
Good luck out there, all.
 
MatMackenz

MatMackenz

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StatusOmega525 said:
Thanks for all the replies. Its obvious there is a hell of a lot I should be taking into consideration that I'm not. Looking at the hand through the filter of the feedback, it is easier to see where a lot of the mistakes were.

Preflop- even looking back I'd still have to say I'm comfortable with my decision to get involved in this hand. The opponent had shown a decent history of raises with hands worse than 10/J suited, and I figured I'd have position on at least the SB after the flop hit. I also figured that suited connectors would cover a wider range of flops, giving possible straight and flush opportunities. Limping may not have been the best option, but I feel like raising or shoving at that point would invest too much for 10/J suited, and I really didn't like the idea of folding, simply because of the history I had with this particular opponent. I'll have to re-evaluate how I view those situations.

Flop/Turn- Yeah, now that its been pointed out, its completely obvious that this was all just extremely bad poker. What made it worse is that I had gotten so far in the tournament by making similar decisions. On top of all the things I wasn't considering, being able to run so far into some of these tournaments may have been reinforcing bad habits that I really need to kick.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, and hopefully because of it at some point down the line I'll be able to post more promising hands.

You may be right. Poker may not be for me. But I'm not ready to agree with that just yet.
Good luck out there, all.
Click to expand...


Several people now have told you that your preflop actions are not correct. What this means is that the plays you made show very little or even Negitive EV.

You should never be limping from later positions, if you are going to play a hand, you enter the pot with a raise, this gives you initiative and a chance to win the pot preflop, which increases the expected value or EV of your play.

You maybe can get away with limping speculative hands from earlier positions, but only if the table is very passive and wont punish you for limping in, but I still would not advise it.

When you get raised from the SB, you should proceed with caution here. You should strongly consider folding here, the raise size from villain gives you terrible pot odds to hit a hand, and you will very rarely win a pot unimproved with Jack High. Calling in this situation will only show a positive EV if the stacks are deep and the SPR is high.

Come up with a better post flop game plan. Bet with your Big made hands and your Bluffs/Semi-bluffs and check back some strong hands w/weak kicker + marginal made hands and try to get to showdown for cheap. You do not want to build a pot with 2nd pair!!
 
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