Going all-in with AK on hand one???

This thread is based on a rant I had last night. On hand one, an opponent called an all-in with AK vs QQ. Since it was a rant, you can figure out how the hand went. I personally think this is a bad idea hand one, as you are at best a very slight underdog in a coin flip. But, I am a solid yet inexperienced played in SNG/MTT land. So, I bring the question to you CCers:

Hand one. You know noone at the table. You are dealt AK. You are eventually brought to the point where you need to cold call all-in. Is this a questionable move, or a move of sheer genius?

You have to let them know what limits....in a 10 cent sng im shoving all day..in the sunday million im folding...see what i mean

Thiss is a questionable call but if u feel that you have the best hand against the donks go for it because you can double up early. The odds of someone else getting a better hand than ace king first hand is very slim.

It depends on the villain's range. Phil Shaw says in his book "Secrets of Sitngos" that we need 54.21% equity for a call like this to be profitable. With a hand like AK, AQ has to be a part of your opponent's range for you to be able to call with AK in this spot.

cjatud2012 said:

It depends on the villain's range. Phil Shaw says in his book "Secrets of Sitngos" that we need 54.21% equity for a call like this to be profitable. With a hand like AK, AQ has to be a part of your opponent's range for you to be able to call with AK in this spot.

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sorry, I should have clarified that this is for STT's. In a MTT you need only ~50/50, so unless you have a read on the very first hand that this is a very nitty villain you should almost always call imo.

would you feel bettr if it was aa?

why are you all in with qq?...because you want to double up early..?

would you call all in with qq if you knew he had ak?

All-in preflop with any hand on the first play of a game is questionable in my book.

What's the rush?

Color me not ready to leave on the first hand.

pfb8888 said:

would you feel bettr if it was aa?

why are you all in with qq?...because you want to double up early..?

would you call all in with qq if you knew he had ak?

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Absolutely. At least I have a made hand at this point.

As for not putting limits, I am simply trying to determine if going all-in with an unmade hand the first hand is wise. I would be in just as much jeopardy in a $1 or $100 BI.

Definitely questionable.

I'd only ever go all-in with Aces so early. Kings maybe if I had a good feeling, just depends but that's about it. I agree though, doesn't seem worth while the blinds are so low.

First hand of a tournament, so I'm presuming your 50-100BB deep. When I get my money in with this size stack I usual have a monster and want to be in a position where my opponent is drawing to no more than 3 outs, eg. KK vs Ax. Doubtful any competent playing is sticking it in with AQ or worse, and an incompetent player would stick it in with a random hand that is live against AK. So overall, IMO AK is a fold with no reads on the first hand of a tournament.

KingCurtis said:

You have to let them know what limits....in a 10 cent sng im shoving all day..in the sunday million im folding...see what i mean

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This ^^^^ exactly. For a dime, I'll see most anything... even if it's for shi** and grins. At (what) $100+ ... ??? I'm folding too.

Juniorsdaddy said:

Absolutely. At least I have a made hand at this point.

As for not putting limits, I am simply trying to determine if going all-in with an unmade hand the first hand is wise. I would be in just as much jeopardy in a $1 or $100 BI.

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'Made hand' of the always beatable QQ ...

'All-in preflop' is ALWAYS a 'jeopardy' move. The question is... the VALUE of the jeopardy. I think what KC is saying basically is that the all-in preflop with QQ in this case is NOT a good play unless you have no significant issues with busting out on the OP hand when playing for chump-change.

Along those same issues, if $100+ is 'chump-change' to you, then the AI is a 'shoving all day' move.

One step further, at the wsop Main Event, would you call a $10,000 all-in preflop with QQ ... ??? There are NO re-buys that day and not another $10,000 WSOP buy-in for 365 days. It's all about taking risks and the relative dangers.

For the most part I will rarely risk my entire stack on the first hand. Unless I have aces or kings theres just no reason to do it. If I have AK and am faced with an all in I more then likely fold. It would be impossible to know if your going up against a monster hand or just a bad player going all in with anything. I'd rather wait for a few hands before doing anything crazy.

if this is a freeroll, then it is a good move as people go all in with everything

Its still not a bad move in a tourney as its usually a coinflip at worst with most hands except AA and KK

There's no rush here, you've been on the table for all of 2 min and haven't seen any hands. If it's a small amount of money you would lose with a call then absolutely call, but if it's a big buy in, no need to rush. Live to play another hand with just a coin flip...unless you're feeling especially lucky

Like a few people have said above, for me it depends a lot on the buy-in. In a cheap tournament I'm snap calling because we can reasonably expect that there are a lot more bad players in the tournament and there's a good chance that we're dominating a lot of the villain's range, coin flipping against some of it and we're only dominated by AA and KK. In a more expensive tournament the players are probably of a better standard and the range is probably skewed more towards coin flips and us being dominated so we lose a bit of equity. Maybe not enough to fold, but at least enough to think about it.

Plus I hate donkaments so I'm happy to either double through or quit early

I vote fold, plenty of time

Definitely call with AK on the first hand at small stakes sit n gos if you don't know your opponent.

In sit n gos below $10 I've seen donks getting it all in on the first hand preflop with all sorts of hands like any pair, any ace, KQ, KJ or weaker hands.

If an unknown player just goes all in preflop on the 1st hand its more likely hes a donk than he happened to pick up a great hand.

You're surely over 55% against his range, probably over 60% when you get down to $1-$3 range sit n gos.

nevadanick said:

One step further, at the WSOP Main Event, would you call a $10,000 all-in preflop with QQ ... ??? There are NO re-buys that day and not another $10,000 WSOP buy-in for 365 days. It's all about taking risks and the relative dangers.

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Yeah some guy actaully did that and his opponent has AA.
In that situation QQ is a clear fold.

In onlne sit n gos however its a clear call as you're way ahead of a villain's range.

That would have to be a definate yes, whilst in a freeroll. Otherwise its a call that shoud be made according to your banrkroll or buy-in. If I was in a $1 buyin, 85-90% guarateed, $10 buy in 5-10%, all depending how quickly the raised and the position from where they made that raise. Go with your gut feeling.

Calling.

Thanks for the info. Apparently I goofed on wording the poll. Most people said that it was a questionable move, but that they would do it. I probably should have put something like "well calculated risk" instead of "sheer genius". I must have still had some left over sarcasm from a previous thread.

It really can suck because early in the tournament people push with virtually anything. If some people call with decent hands, chances are they may have one of your cards and a better chance a rag hand of catching. But early, first hand in the tournament, I usually don't push pre-flop. I'll call if someone else does but I at least like to see the flop.

oveja_negra11 said:

It really can suck because early in the tournament people push with virtually anything. If some people call with decent hands, chances are they may have one of your cards and a better chance a rag hand of catching. But early, first hand in the tournament, I usually don't push pre-flop. I'll call if someone else does but I at least like to see the flop.

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what?

He's saying he doesn't want to get it all in pre but if he has AK and someone shoves he ain't folding.

I really hate when people push early in a game with AK. They act like its the stone cold nutts preflop.But guess if your playing in a low buyin tourney your gona get that from the people who are just learning how to play.