Folding Aces to Maniacs?

I know-I know, but hear me out.

I was playing a $5.50 buy-in tournament the other day on pokerstars, early stages and still plenty of maniacs. I get aces on the button, but before play gets to me, the small blind, UTG and middle position have gone all-in. I suspect at least one of them is holding junk, and maybe I'm looking at AK or a pocket pair from the other two. I call. My AA is now against QQ in the small blind, 10-8 suited under the f*****g gun, and A2o in middle position.

Flop comes: Q spades - 2 spades - 2 diamonds.

My question is this. Even though I had the best shot pre-flop at taking the pot and quadrupling my stack, at 55% is it not better to fold my precious aces in this spot? Even if you know you're likely playing against junk, four-handed is always going to make it a flip. I'm properly bankrolled for losses, but is it +EV to call?

YogSothoth said:

I know-I know, but hear me out.

I was playing a $5.50 buy-in tournament the other day on Pokerstars, early stages and still plenty of maniacs. I get aces on the button, but before play gets to me, the small blind, UTG and middle position have gone all-in. I suspect at least one of them is holding junk, and maybe I'm looking at AK or a pocket pair from the other two. I call. My AA is now against QQ in the small blind, 10-8 suited under the f*****g gun, and A2o in middle position.

Flop comes: Q spades - 2 spades - 2 diamonds.

My question is this. Even though I had the best shot pre-flop at taking the pot and quadrupling my stack, at 55% is it not better to fold my precious aces in this spot? Even if you know you're likely playing against junk, four-handed is always going to make it a flip. I'm properly bankrolled for losses, but is it +EV to call?

Click to expand...

Thank U 4 Posting

Yes it is +EV to call -you are getting anywhere from 1.5-1 to 3-1 on your money and at 55% you do not even need 1-1 for this to be EV+
Also tournament strategy is all about building a big stack to make it to the top 3 spots- blowing out of the tournament early- with the correct math- in a great spot to build a big stack- is the proper way to approach tournaments.

It helps to focus on the math so that the variance does not drive us crazy and so we do not make EV mistakes like folding AA at the wrong time.
We can only make correct decisions, we have to focus on what we can control, the math!

You thought it was the correct action- you took the correct action- that is all you could have done in game. Well done!

Also you took the time afterwards to confirm if it was the correct action by looking at the EV of the situation. Well done!

Hope this helps

eetenor said:

Thank U 4 Posting

Yes it is +EV to call -you are getting anywhere from 1.5-1 to 3-1 on your money and at 55% you do not even need 1-1 for this to be EV+
Also tournament strategy is all about building a big stack to make it to the top 3 spots- blowing out of the tournament early- with the correct math- in a great spot to build a big stack- is the proper way to approach tournaments.

It helps to focus on the math so that the variance does not drive us crazy and so we do not make EV mistakes like folding AA at the wrong time.
We can only make correct decisions, we have to focus on what we can control, the math!

You thought it was the correct action- you took the correct action- that is all you could have done in game. Well done!

Also you took the time afterwards to confirm if it was the correct action by looking at the EV of the situation. Well done!

Hope this helps

Click to expand...

Cheers for the detailed response! Even though I tell myself to focus on the maths, count my losses properly and pragmatically etc, I still find myself trying too hard at times to control single tournaments / hours. You're absolutely right.

My friend, this is hard to accept and understand, but in this situation preflop all in, if you have AA, you must go all in or make any call on your entire stack.. Unfortunately, such situations happen, this is the problem of online poker, freerolls and micro-limit tournaments... If I understand you correctly, you made a call (all in). If so, you played absolutely right! In this situation, you should not think about it for a long time, you should look, understand this situation and forget. You were in a bad place at a bad time.. It happens. You don't have to think too much about it, much less about the fact that you didn't play it right. You're upset, I understand, but nothing terrible has happened. Luck hit you and turned away.. it happens. Stupid and crazy players also play poker among us understand this

all in in this situation can not be considered, remember this

I personally don't fold AA pre flop. I especially wouldn't fold early in a tournament. You could rebuy or simply find a different tournament.

eetenor said:

Thank U 4 Posting

Yes it is +EV to call -you are getting anywhere from 1.5-1 to 3-1 on your money and at 55% you do not even need 1-1 for this to be EV+
Also tournament strategy is all about building a big stack to make it to the top 3 spots- blowing out of the tournament early- with the correct math- in a great spot to build a big stack- is the proper way to approach tournaments.

It helps to focus on the math so that the variance does not drive us crazy and so we do not make EV mistakes like folding AA at the wrong time.
We can only make correct decisions, we have to focus on what we can control, the math!

You thought it was the correct action- you took the correct action- that is all you could have done in game. Well done!

Also you took the time afterwards to confirm if it was the correct action by looking at the EV of the situation. Well done!

Hope this helps

Click to expand...

This!! Tanks for the detailed explanation!!

This is the best hand. It doesn't give you a win just a good chance. In a poker hold'em calculator, see what your odds are against the whole table and when there are few players.

know when to fold even premium hands

YogSothoth said:

I know-I know, but hear me out.

I was playing a $5.50 buy-in tournament the other day on Pokerstars, early stages and still plenty of maniacs. I get aces on the button, but before play gets to me, the small blind, UTG and middle position have gone all-in. I suspect at least one of them is holding junk, and maybe I'm looking at AK or a pocket pair from the other two. I call. My AA is now against QQ in the small blind, 10-8 suited under the f*****g gun, and A2o in middle position.

Flop comes: Q spades - 2 spades - 2 diamonds.

My question is this. Even though I had the best shot pre-flop at taking the pot and quadrupling my stack, at 55% is it not better to fold my precious aces in this spot? Even if you know you're likely playing against junk, four-handed is always going to make it a flip. I'm properly bankrolled for losses, but is it +EV to call?

Click to expand...

in most cases one would say you made the correct call, but to further add to this what you should have done is calculate you bbs if you stack is greater than 80 % theres no need to call especially at the beginning of a tourney itys that simple learn the players and the board likely flops

The only thing I'd add to what's been said in this thread is that the only time you should ever really fold AA pre-flop is at the bubble of a satellite and you already have a big enough stack to guarantee you a seat to the target tournament. At that point, you can happily fold 100% of hands knowing you'll make it and there's no risk.

The only other time I could understand someone wanting to fold AA pre-flop, even though I don't agree, is if you're playing a much bigger tournament than normal (so you either got in via a satty or a free ticket) and you're on the bubble and you really want to make the money as it would be a massive boost for you.
As I said, I don't agree with that thinking as you should play regardless of the money but can see how some people would act like that in that situation as the money clouds the judgement at times

all our profit depends on + EV decisions, regardless of the result you need to strive for the right game. That's how everyone calms down during bad beats. There's nothing else you can do.

The move is +EV no matter the final outcome if it is preflop. Yes, it is a headache to lose, but you have an 85% chance of winning. It is poker and there is still an element of gambling, no matter how often we nits try to prevent it. Now, as was stated, if you are going to run the risk of missing out on the money, do not do this close to the bubble. I see no problem with the play and I am more nit than TAG right now.

Yes most definitely a call, you can't fold there

ALL IN all day long!!! It’s mandatory!!! Yes we sometimes lose, but most of the time we win. No matter what math says, it’s all in micro stakes tournaments.