Fold quad 7s? what do you think?

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cadmu

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I dont know how many of you have heard about this particular hand but i figure it deserves a little discussion. Its from last nights wsop main event day 2c.

Kyle Bowker makes what could be one amazing lay down holding pocket 7s, unfortunately his opponent didnt show, so we can never really know. i dont have all the info on the hand but from the wsop updates, it went down on this board.

Ks, 9s, 7x, 7x, and Js falls on the river, Bowkers opponent pushes all in. i do know chip stacks atm, or position.

Bowker makes the insane lay down and shows is quad 7s, figuring his opponent has to have Qs 10s, for the straight flush. personally i dont know if i have that lay down in me.. i may just have to see that hand and watch my chips float away if it is the straight flush...

what do you guys think. i will see if i can find more info.. or does anyone else know more of this hand.
 
kissapig

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The WSOP main event has been known to have some impressive laydowns, this one ranks right up there. From comments I have seen from people at or near the table, everyone seems to think that it was a good laydown.
 
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ph_il

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Terrible fold.

Terrible to fold it face up.

It looks like Kyle bet 40k into a 40k pot, then folded to a 100k shove. Yeah. Terrible fold.
 
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cadmu

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thats all the info i have on it atm, but as kissapig pointed out, the consensus around the area at the time was it was a good fold.

I just wish we had all the info on the bets and stacks/position.

Im partial to pushing with the straight flush draws, when they are draws. not after i make em. that said maybe he was semi bluffing up till that push i still dont know actions.. and thats just how i usually play em
 
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cadmu

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In my head i hear Steve Dannennman, reading from his little cheat sheet, way back in the 05 main event. "Folding the best hand is only a small mistake."
 
Dunc8b

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I struggle folding a pair of sevens.

That is boggling my mind that someone could fold four of anything. That makes it a massive, massive gulf between where I am now and where they are. But if what you are saying that the consensus was it was the right move then I tip my hat to the man.
 
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ninoverm

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Terrible fold.

Terrible to fold it face up.

It looks like Kyle bet 40k into a 40k pot, then folded to a 100k shove. Yeah. Terrible fold.

Folding quads getting 3 to 1, that's mad. I don't think folding would even cross my mind in that position.
 
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dudubets

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I would never lay down at this point. Even if you loose, its probably a bluff.
 
gjwalk

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How can that possibly be a good fold?? There's no way Kyle could know he was up against a straight flush unless he was cheating, which makes it pretty dumb of him to show his quads. Assuming he wasn't cheating then, how can he fold quads with only a very unlikely hand beating him? He either screwed up big time or this story got exaggerated.
 
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cadmu

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so theres 40k in pot, 40k bet, opponent calls 40k+100k raise.

100k to win 220k. so, yeah, i cant see my opponent holding Qs 10s, enough to fold here without some rediculous read. and its 331:1 against him having Qs 10s.

the more i think about it, he absolutely had to have spotted something. all the math points to a call .

i also saw a theory somewhere that maybe he bet that 40k and his opponent rechecked his cards, and kyle was close enough for him to see some part of his hole cards. if he saw 10s or Qs, he can be pretty sure what hes up against.
 
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cadmu

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Well things appear to be working out well enough for Bowker, as hes alread taken down a large pot with top pair shortly after the start of play today, and has ran up to 230k, from i suppose around 100k last night after that fold.

If Mckeehen and Greg Raymer bust i think im gonna be on Bowkers team. would love to see Mckeehen repeat.
 
andyt5303

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I could probably never lay down quads in any case, but im also not wsop caliber ;)
 
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iceacb

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I could not believe he folded. Would never lay down quads.
 
HAMC81

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Terrible fold all the way, Id rather go broke on quads than never knowing what might have been with that double up.
 
Dunc8b

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Terrible fold all the way, Id rather go broke on quads than never knowing what might have been with that double up.

That's the kind of thinking, not with quads I must point out, of wanting to know just what they've got that is a weakness of mine I'm trying to master.
 
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so theres 40k in pot, 40k bet, opponent calls 40k+100k raise.
He was actually getting 3:1.

40K in pot + 40K bet + [40K call + 60K raise] = 180K.

Kyle had to call 60K to win 180K.
 
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donkcentralFF

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This is such a dumb fold lol how many times is his opponent going to have kkk or 999 here.. Such a wussy fold.. Would love to see how the betting went down pre-river.. So obvious if his opponent has a ****in sf he is going to show his cards after he tables the fold of quads... Lol if you have the straight flush it just wasn't my day
 
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PW300

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Has to be a bad fold surely. It is much more likely he was holding kk to make the fh. Even if you play the hand and lose, you will have lost with 4 of a kind which no one could say would have been bad play. It would just be unbelievably unlucky.
 
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subdylzep

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WOW.... just ****ing WOW... I have to say, im super awesome at reading people and cards and in this case, it looks like he definitely made the correct lay down. Could i make that lay down? doubtful, but maybe. If you put everything together, with the bets and the size of the pot almost nothing else makes sense. First off, you are playing against someone who has just won a bracelet, so you know they aren't ****ing around and they aren't going to pot the river w anything under boat w that board, maybe nut flush, but doubtful. Secondly, w 3 to the flop nobody is letting that happen w KK or JJ preflop, its just a bad play and he stated the kid he was playing wasn't bad, he's on day 3 of the Main Event. Lastly, board reading like that the only possible other hand you are going to come over the top with is KK, Nothing else absolutely makes sense, and with the betting the way it went there is only 1 hand that could be possible. He flats, flats, He's not doing that w KK, any good player knows to get paid on a cooler u have to raise, which is why you raise and bet your flopped sets. The kid is going to reraise preflop w KK. He's going to raise the flop or turn w a flopped set and turned boat w 99 or JJ, because its very possible the man making the bets is actually holding KK. If you tank on this and think about it there is absolutely no way he's shoving everything w a nut flush, he would just flat. There is only one option he can come over the top with and that Qs10s. I agree its crazy af, but if you think about it and the way the preflop, flop, turn, and river went down it had to be Qs10s. Impossibly crazy fold, I hope one day I am able to make the kind of lay down, if i had it though i would definitely show it. And the ONLY way you don't show that bluff is if you had the nutz, any other time, any other cards you are going to want to make sure your opponent knows they made a bad fold!
 
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Two6JJ

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I am going out on my quads because how many times am I really beat?
 
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bnasp2

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Thats big wow for me. That would never happen at my limits, especially with such good odds to call.

But its also thinking I have to learn. Not just the cards I have, but also - what cards should villan has to do such action?
 
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