to fold on the flop with pocket KK

what to do when going into the pot preflop with pocket KK 20BB - the flop comes ace and your opponent makes a very big raise? is it always necessary to fold a pocket card with no improvement on the flop and an ace on the board?

Pocket kings are a monster pre-flop however when an ace comes they are just an underpair. Try not to get to attached to big pocket pairs especially when overcards come. A raise here is either a value raise which will always be at least an ace or a bluff. If you don’t have reason to believe this player is bluffing I think you have to let the kings go imo. If there are draws on the flop they could be semi bluffing, tricky spot

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edik2202 said:

what to do when going into the pot preflop with pocket KK 20BB - the flop comes ace and your opponent makes a very big raise? is it always necessary to fold a pocket card with no improvement on the flop and an ace on the board?

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Tough spot, I take it he didn't 3-bet you pre or you might have shoved. Considering that many players will donk-bet the flop there, it's not always necessary to fold, but he has you on the ropes with that stack; so you probably need a good read to continue.

most players don't bluff as often as we suspect.

if you don't know the player, or don't have reason to suspect he's getting out of line, give him credit for the ace and fold and move on. don't forget, there are other hands besides the ace that could beat you, you do just have 1 pair. sometimes the ace saves you money.

I would say generally toss it since you are most likely against an Ace if there was a raise on the flop.

If your opponent is a player who likes to play aces, you have to fold. If the other player is a fish who plays any two cards, you Gotta play. It just depends on your read.

Here's a thought, maybe you need to make a larger initial bet so you can put your opponent on a smaller range if he calls a lets say 6x preflop blind then the overcard hits and you bet say pot and he reraises then it's not hard to know what to do, but if your trying to milk him with pocket kings and lets say your bets are small no information type bets then your going to be lost.
Anyways we really need more positional and Hud info to best asses this situation.

Blackfeet888 said:

Here's a thought, maybe you need to make a larger initial bet so you can put your opponent on a smaller range if he calls a lets say 6x preflop blind then the overcard hits and you bet say pot and he reraises then it's not hard to know what to do, but if your trying to milk him with pocket kings and lets say your bets are small no information type bets then your going to be lost.
Anyways we really need more positional and Hud info to best asses this situation.

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the problem with the above advice is that you may be giving away bet sizing information.

I'd trust a reliable bet sizing tell over a HUD stat any day.

If you're planning on playing a lot of pots, smaller preflop raises are OK provided you are disciplined enough to fold premium hands on a bad flop.

If you're planning on playing few pots, then bigger preflop raises are OK.

The question is why you don't go all in with such a monster hand.
Or shoulb be, is KK good enough for an all in and is it good to go all in before the flop.
I mostly go all in with a kings pocket pair, or is it too risky because of the ace. Is there a player who would call just not to waste this card.
I go all in just to get some players out, who only want to see the flop and perhaps hit two pairs or something else. I hate it to loose at the end of the river against a small hand with KK. And when you don't want to go all in with KK then when only with two aces or how you handle two aces.

@locha2013 I'd say if you're playing tourney and short stacked it's ok to go all in with KK. Or if you're sure that someone's gonna call your shove. But generally if you go all in with a monster hand people are gonna fold to you and that's not what you want. You want people to call your raise and get a lot of money out of it. At the same time though, your raise should be big enough so donks fold their speculative hands. You can lose to someone with AA, but I wouldn't think about it all that much unless someone in front of you shoves or makes a big raise. Should you still fold KK? I'm not sure, some people will shove TT+ ....

As for playing KK with A on the flop...... it really is situational. If you have an idea about range of your opponent, how he's been playing so far, has he tried to bluff before etc etc..... I got into this situation few days ago and refused to believe he's got aces with A on the flop. Guess what. He did have pair of aces Next time around I'd probably let KK go.

Whichever decision you make, fold or shove, will, if you are anything like me, turn out to be the wrong one.

I always have great difficulty in laying KK down but, as others have said, it is so situational and the decision should come down to whether you have a read on the villain.

If you don't have a read or your read is they are solid then a fold should be the decision.

If you read them as loose then it is more difficult. Much more difficult in my case. I am not therefore the best to give advice in this situation, I would only say that you should follow your instant reaction. Don't think too much, go with your instinct.

Depend of your opponent´s play style. If you know that he´s super aggressive and come out betting with pretty much anything then you should call. However if your opponent is a tight player, who only bet with top pair at least, then you should fold.

when i go to the flop with KK and hit an A i'm done. i play the hand very cautiously and when a big raise comes i just fold. chances are he is holding sth like JJ or KQ but most of the time he just has the ace. face it, you can't win your kings everytime

If you are playing in a tourny you should try and go all in preflop with that monster. but after flop with an ace on board and a huge raise i would just fold
and live to fight another day

I can't fold KK preflop, I know when a player hits an ace it can be a goodby for me..
But I call all in or go all in and watch what is happening. I love to go all in preflop with a pocket pair Aces or Kings.

I think this is an easy fold... but depends what tendacies this other players has before on other hands.. Does he bet scare cards (like when an ace hits the board).. does he usually bet the flop when he has nothing and is first to make the bet. if he does one or both, this decision becomes harder.

100% you should fold, I don't think if your opponent will bluff if you raised in pre-flop...

I think that´s an easy fold. However, to prevent to see the flop i make an huge raise

KK and resubir treatment raise pre-flop if it is possible to get all in pre-flop. In case of not go allin preflop and with an A on the board. Continuation bet and if call or re-raise. I check-fold.

In these situations if I have big amount of chips I just reraise my opps. Not very small, not very big bet. If opp folds - haha, it's nice. If he is calling - he has a pair, but kicker is not strong. Reraise - you should definetely fold.
That's my opinion on this situation.
That's how I play when I have BIG stack.

locha2013 said:

The question is why you don't go all in with such a monster hand.
Or shoulb be, is KK good enough for an all in and is it good to go all in before the flop.
I mostly go all in with a kings pocket pair, or is it too risky because of the ace. Is there a player who would call just not to waste this card.
I go all in just to get some players out, who only want to see the flop and perhaps hit two pairs or something else. I hate it to loose at the end of the river against a small hand with KK. And when you don't want to go all in with KK then when only with two aces or how you handle two aces.

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go all-inn with pocket kings - this is probably all players fold ... what's the point? .. just pick up the blinds? .. I like to take good banks, not just blind! ..

second hand KK theory is strong, I think any player would do fold, the opposite would rise to the allin. how many times will leave KK against Ax ...

Gotta ship it 95% of the time unless you have info on the player you're heads up with. I don't think you necessarily need to go all in right here though over top. It depends on the size of the bet. The other option is to call and see if they make a continuation bet on the turn. Ya never know, your hand coule improve! But yea...ship it haha

As said earlier KK is an under pair on a board with an ace,as with all hands your move after the flop should be read dependent .Knowing what type of player you are playing against will help you decide if you should fold or not.Never be afraid to make a lay down if you think you are beat even with a premium hand pre it might not be premium post flop.Sometimes it is the hands we lay down that save us a lot of money in the long run not the hero calls...........scorp

scorpion1367 said:

Sometimes it is the hands we lay down that save us a lot of money in the long run not the hero calls...........scorp

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