Fold AA KK to Satellite

I got KK with 15 left 13 get seats

I was about 7th but I wasn't folding

Nobody called and I was safe

My question is should you fold aces or kings to avoid sucking out?

Depends on how short the shortstacks are and how my M is. If there are really shortstacks and I have a very big M then I would definetly consider it, and if I'm 3rd or 2nd I definelty would especially if there was danger from the big stack.

I agree, a lot depends on circumstances.

If you are early in the tournament with low blinds and a lot of shove action in front of you, then I would definately fold in those circumstances. AA and KK don't seem to fare too well in multiway pots.

At the bubble of a tournament like this, I would have no problem open shoving if I have a strong stack in comparison to the players remaining in the pot. If there is a lot of shove/call action before me and my stack would be at risk and I was not in control of the betting, I would give up the hand and wait until a better spot.

At the bubble, if I am in a good position, then I limit all risk if at all necessary. After the bubble I will open up my game.

Tough decision for satellites.. as stated before in the above 2 threads, I think it would depend on your stack size and the stack sizes of those in the pot.

It would depend on all of the above...stack sizes, position. my M and theirs...you were lucky to stay safe.:angel:

Now If you're in position - last one to call a shove, then I would play. But if we're UTG, fold and pretend it was never dealt. Bubble time is the time to tighten up and let the other shorter stacks duel it out. But then again if I were short stack, insta-shove no matter what the position unless there's a raise ahead of you, opponent most likely has AA or AK.

You're sitting pretty for this tourney. First pays the same thing as 13th and you're sitting in the middle of the field. As long as everyone has super tightened up, taking their full amount of time each time action has come to them, then I say just sit back and wait. Steal blinds once or twice when you're in position, and wait for two people to try and make a move.

Last satt tourney I won paid out 250 spots. After 2 hours I was ranked around 50th. I sat out until I got around 150th then came back, waited, won with a premium hand, then sat out and coasted for the last hour. Basic rule is quit while you're ahead. If it's anything like FT someone at the table got dealt JJ and AA as well.. lol

There is certainly a balance between shoving all in out of position and only winning the blinds. KK is great preflop, but once you let the cards fall all bets are off. You are best to isolate aganst one opponent with a strong preflop raise. If you are in a short stacked tournament situation, there is no shame in going all in, but try to extract as many chips as possible in the process. Considering where you were and 13th paying the same as 1st, its not a bad thing to fold. Just how to do that depends on several factors already discussed. Considering where you were and 13th paying the same as 1st, its not a bad thing to fold. The problem with that stragety is that 7th place can quickly become a 14th finish if the blinds get too big or if KK gets sucked out on. Did you satellite in...

liamkg said:

I got KK with 15 left 13 get seats

I was about 7th but I wasn't folding

Nobody called and I was safe

My question is should you fold aces or kings to avoid sucking out?

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you're 7th with 13 getting paid and 2 needing to bust.

Aces is a snap fold in that situation.

Whenever I see this debate I tend to send people to an article Bernard Lee wrote on the subject of folding AA preflop in satellites.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=lee_bernard&id=4012064

Velutha said:

Whenever I see this debate I tend to send people to an article Bernard Lee wrote on the subject of folding AA preflop in satellites.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=lee_bernard&id=4012064

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Good article Velutha, thanks for the link.

Saw an above-avg-stacked player get KOed out of the FT $1K Rd 1 with K.K against A.A...less than 30 spots away from the top 250.

EP = K.K
LP = A.A (tight solid player)

EP raised 10x BB & LP shoved all in...insta call from EP, after outlasting 9K peeps EP risked tourney life against someone who hadn't played several rounds & rarely shoved all in...yee-ikes.

if it was 13 seats only yes i would fold but if it was in a money tournament where if you get deeper in the tournament and you get more money i would risk it with AA or KK def if not shove it all in then i'll call maybe raise three times the big blind if im not out of position or if there is a lot of people calling i might not call with KK but AA definately.

I got AA pre-flop and folded them even now one had entered the pot yet. 20 places got paid and there were 21 players left. I had most covered, but I would rather play safer and guarantee myself a spot than risk a 20% or worse suckout

Velutha said:

Whenever I see this debate I tend to send people to an article Bernard Lee wrote on the subject of folding AA preflop in satellites.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=lee_bernard&id=4012064

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Thanx, thats a good read, I don't realy see it as a theory though, its just common sense imo

The structure and your relative stack size (M) is the only thing here. If you can make a ticket without playing a hand then its a snap fold. If you cannot its a fist-pump shove.

I've actually folded AA before in a Satellite, when I knew I was guaranteed to make it and didn't need to get involved. It's a tough hand to fold(very unnatural thing to do), but sometimes you just have to do it.

tenbob said:

The structure and your relative stack size (M) is the only thing here. If you can make a ticket without playing a hand then its a snap fold. If you cannot its a fist-pump shove.

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^^^This. If I was one of the chip leaders I used to think it was my duty to call the shoves of the short stacks. Of course the short stacks would hit their miracle card and I would just double them up. Now I fold every hand and float my way to winning a ticket. It's just too frustrating to call an ai pf with AA and have villain hit their set with their 33 then you are left scrambling for a seat you should have had in the bag.

If you are in 7th place then personally I would play it safe and might probably fold but I would definetely not let it go right away and think about it...If I raise and no ace comes on the flop then oh of course imma bet it because I am asking myself does the next guy want to risk being taken out...And if the 2 ppl infront of me are short stacked then I am going to use my kings to take em out so yeah its all about position and knowing what and who you are dealing with...

that article is a good read should you ever find yourself in that situation.

Push here. Fold KK's or AA's, can't see it. Doesn't get any better than that!

AceZWylD said:

I agree, a lot depends on circumstances.

If you are early in the tournament with low blinds and a lot of shove action in front of you, then I would definately fold in those circumstances. AA and KK don't seem to fare too well in multiway pots.

At the bubble of a tournament like this, I would have no problem open shoving if I have a strong stack in comparison to the players remaining in the pot. If there is a lot of shove/call action before me and my stack would be at risk and I was not in control of the betting, I would give up the hand and wait until a better spot.

At the bubble, if I am in a good position, then I limit all risk if at all necessary. After the bubble I will open up my game.

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I disagree with that. If im dealt KK early in the tournament and its a question of going all in or folding preflop, then I'd move all in 100% of the time and if i lose then its just not meant to be.

I don't think you should ever fold KK preflop in early stages of tournament because the early stages are when your supposed to take risks to build a big stack.

If you fold kings because you think someone has aces, the times that you're wrong will far outnumber the times you're right.

BTW AA and KK are excellent in multiway pots, providing that you're able to lay them down when your likely to be beat.

The benefits of not sucking out out-weight the times you do suck out.

I don't agree with those that say they will shove pf. We are talking about the end stages of a satellite. The top players are vying for a seat, not first place. Why are you risking a seat that is nearly guaranteed with just 2 people left to go? It's not like you are awarded cash or even a trophy for first place, you entered the satellite to win the seat. You are positioned to do just that if you just fold your hands and let the short stacks fight it out. It sounds to me like some of you get married to your hands and not pay attention to the finer details and logic.

Well I would say it depends on what kind of satellite you are in and the circumstances such as how short stacked the other players behind you are and as well as what postion you are in and how many people are in the hand. If you have KK you could figure if they have a Ace in there hand u only have 3 cards that can beat ya pre flop. I would probably raise minimum to try and steal the blinds and if u have a caller or 2 u still have a great hand.

StormRaven said:

I don't agree with those that say they will shove pf. We are talking about the end stages of a satellite. The top players are vying for a seat, not first place. Why are you risking a seat that is nearly guaranteed with just 2 people left to go? It's not like you are awarded cash or even a trophy for first place, you entered the satellite to win the seat. You are positioned to do just that if you just fold your hands and let the short stacks fight it out. It sounds to me like some of you get married to your hands and not pay attention to the finer details and logic.

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This is what I would have exactly said.