Flops Seen Percent in MTT's

I have always found this an interesting topic. Percent of flops seen in an MTT.

I find I do best in MTT events when my flops seen % runs between 13% and 18% down to 27 players. If I make it to the final table, that number will increse as the number of players decrease and I am forced to lower my starting hand standards.

Further, I sometimes seem to get a run where I am getting a lot of the upper end - marginal hands in good position. If that is the case I will play those hands for small pots and my % of flops will increase to 18% - 22%.

I do not consider myself a very lucky player. I use the math to help me make overall decisions. I use what little poker skills to help me win most pots I win. What I am asking for is if my thinking is correct? Or, am I totally off base?

Thanks in anvance!!

I_B_Freaky said:

I have always found this an interesting topic. Percent of flops seen in an MTT.

I find I do best in MTT events when my flops seen % runs between 13% and 18% down to 27 players. If I make it to the final table, that number will increse as the number of players decrease and I am forced to lower my starting hand standards.

Further, I sometimes seem to get a run where I am getting a lot of the upper end - marginal hands in good position. If that is the case I will play those hands for small pots and my % of flops will increase to 18% - 22%.

I do not consider myself a very lucky player. I use the math to help me make overall decisions. I use what little poker skills to help me win most pots I win. What I am asking for is if my thinking is correct? Or, am I totally off base?

Thanks in anvance!!

Click to expand...

I agree with you. I used to play around 25-30% and 0-5% PFR and didn't do too bad, but I think that was because I don't have a problem laying down hands that might be beat and when playing a higher % of hands, you're going to be able to win a little more. On the other hand, you dwindle your chips down every time you miss, making it that much harder to get ITM.

Now, I'm keeping my stats around 15/10 (VPIP/PFR) and I'm getting closer to the end a lot more than I used to. I just need to learn to open up a little more and be more aggressive towards the end and I think I will be placing higher up ITM.

It's not a matter of your flop % seen, however the percentage you end up winning! You will indeed come around winning a few ( small ball ), but what is more important is how you maximize bigger pot sizes wins.

My VPIP/PFR is 34/28 in mtt's, but I play mostly rebuys so it is going to be a little higher.

chuckgellasc said:

My VPIP/PFR is 34/28 in mtt's, but I play mostly rebuys so it is going to be a little higher.

Click to expand...

Why would it be higher for rebuys? I play my normal game in rebuys and usually end up not having to add on.

Sure, you're gonna have to make some gutsy calls to allins. But if you've got the hand, why not? The last thing I would want to do in a rebuy is see a lot of hands that might be tempting to call to the river. That's just bleeding chips, imo.

My VPIP in tournies varies massively depending on stack and context.

I've played 80% of hands in the first hour and I've played 10%.

I've gone for an hour in mid-game withotu putting any chips in and I've played a dozen hands in a row.

Unlike Ring games where there is is merit in establishing a winning statistical equilibrium MTTs have no such stability. Every hand is different to the previous one as the blidns and stacks shift. So the right % is whatever is right for the situation in front of you, not some ideal figure.


(and in rebuys, if your VPIP doesn't start at 50% for the first half hour you're not trying)

Irexes said:

(and in rebuys, if your VPIP doesn't start at 50% for the first half hour you're not trying)

Click to expand...

<3 rebuys, one of the best things in online poker imo.

I should play these more.

Irexes said:

My VPIP in tournies varies massively depending on stack and context.

I've played 80% of hands in the first hour and I've played 10%.

I've gone for an hour in mid-game withotu putting any chips in and I've played a dozen hands in a row.

Unlike Ring games where there is is merit in establishing a winning statistical equilibrium MTTs have no such stability. Every hand is different to the previous one as the blidns and stacks shift. So the right % is whatever is right for the situation in front of you, not some ideal figure.


(and in rebuys, if your VPIP doesn't start at 50% for the first half hour you're not trying)

Click to expand...

First off, I'm not doubting your MTT abilities in the slightest. But I've played in quite a few MTT's and I've found more success playing tight rather than loose. I'm not saying that you can't run into a string of J9o, KTo, 97s hands and stack your opponents and win, I'm just saying that, with those types of hands, I was getting in sticky situations. And that's what I'm trying to get away from and playing tighter has got me there.

In rebuys, I feel the same way. I've proven, if only to myself, that playing a tighter and more aggresive game is the best way for me to chip up in these. Everyone else is playing loose on the idea that if they miss they can re-buy. Well, I want to be there when they miss and I catch.

I really haven't played many re-buys since I started tightening up my game. But I did play my normal game back then. My stats were somewhere in the range of 30/5. This worked very well for me as I won my way into a lot of the 6K sniper tournies on UB. By the end of the re-buy period I was not surprised to see myself in the top 5 and not needing to add-on.

But this works for me. 50%VPIP works for you, I have no doubts. I'm just putting in my 2c worth.

There's many ways to skin the mtt cat. All I would say is that if you have one approach (and if there is one to pick it's certainly tight and aggressive) then there will be situations where you simply don't find chances to build and maintain a stack. A variety of gears or however it's described, is the way to go for me.

As for rebuys, that's a very long essay that I'm not writing now

Yes, you do have to switch gears, so to speak. In spouting my stats, I did fail to mention that on one table I might be playing a 50%VPIP and on the next I might never play a hand outside the BB.

And my last post wasn't aimed to say that TAG is the only way to go, I was just elaborating on my previous post.

And with that elaboration, I give you this elaboration!

I agree with Rex (about freezouts). It`s so situational that VPIP is not particularly meaningful.

Only last night, for example, I played in a MTT where my table was full of over-aggressive players. I sat back, waited for the cards and picked my spot, played exactly one hand before the first break, and tripled up. I finished ITM.

Other times, I have played lots of hands and been the table captain, where that seemed appropriate on the day.

Where I differ from Rex is that I think his approach to rebuys is a little too wild, but we have had that discussion before, and anyway it seems to work for him.

Egon Towst said:

Where I differ from Rex is that I think his approach to rebuys is a little too wild, but we have had that discussion before, and anyway it seems to work for him.

Click to expand...

This is an entirely fair comment. I'm entirely happy double-rebuying half a dozen times or more, looking to build a stack 4 times the starting double-stack by the break if possible.

It's high variance, requires a bankroll that can stand it, and definately not everyone's cup of tea. I'm absolutely sure that cat also has multiple fur removal options.

Irexes said:

I'm absolutely sure that cat also has multiple fur removal options.

Click to expand...

I had to read that a second time before the penny dropped. I see you have been sharpening your clause.

And feline good about it

Irexes said:

I'm absolutely sure that cat also has multiple fur removal options.

Click to expand...

Good!

Egon Towst said:

I see you have been sharpening your clause.

Click to expand...

Gooder!

Irexes said:

And feline good about it

Click to expand...

Goodest, IMHO!



I do agree with rex in the fact that it's situational. And I know there will be days I can win with a 10/7 set of stats, and days I can win with 40/30 stats.

I was just saying that in my limited time playing my "better" game, those stats I quoted above have helped me out a lot.

Thanks for your replies guys!! Hope to see you at the tables. Interesting comments from you re-buy players. THANKS!!!

Here`s an interesting observation:

I am playing two MTTs at the moment. One just reached the first break. The other is 50 minutes in.

In one, I am 11% VPIP. The table is 36.

In the other, I am 38%. The table is 17.

In other words, I am playing different styles in the two games, and the determining factor is not any pre-conceived plan. It is a response to the conditions around me.

I hadn`t even realised I was doing it, until I studied the numbers and remembered this thread, but I am playing tight where the opponents are loose, and loose where they are tight.

Egon Towst said:

Here`s an interesting observation:

I am playing two MTTs at the moment. One just reached the first break. The other is 50 minutes in.

In one, I am 11% VPIP. The table is 36.

In the other, I am 38%. The table is 17.

In other words, I am playing different styles in the two games, and the determining factor is not any pre-conceived plan. It is a response to the conditions around me.

I hadn`t even realised I was doing it, until I studied the numbers and remembered this thread, but I am playing tight where the opponents are loose, and loose where they are tight.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I notice the same thing a lot also. I don't often look at my stats, although I keep them at the table (just in the corner). But sometimes I will look down and see I'm playing around 50% of the hands dealt and I freak out.

But looking at the HH I can see where I'm in a lot of hands because I have recently switched tables and get dealt some good hands to play in.

A little update on those two MTTs I mentioned (not that it`s a sufficient sample to mean anything, of course):

In the first one, the loose game where I played tight, the variance wasn`t with me and I went out 111th of 530 starters. Out of the money, but at least high enough not to feel disgraced.

I won the other tourney and picked up $700 for a $5.50 buyin.

Nice Egon

And as a bonus due to our magically linked variance, also means I'm due a result.

And less modesty, more brags from you please.

Irexes said:

And less modesty, more brags from you please.

Click to expand...

Not sure I know how to do that, Rex. In any case, poker has plenty of loudmouths already, don`t you think ?

Egon Towst said:

Not sure I know how to do that, Rex. In any case, poker has plenty of loudmouths already, don`t you think ?

Click to expand...

Yes, but I get lonely

Ok, if not for your self-aggrandisement, how about for other ccers vicarious pleasure? I've had some lovely pms from people who seem to have taken a lot of enjoyment from my wins and cashes. Share the happiness sir, if not for your sake then FOR THE GOOD OF MANKIND!!!"!$!£%^^!"!!

Irexes said:

Yes, but I get lonely

Click to expand...

Nonsense, you know I didn`t mean you.

Seriously, though: I would write more HA and Strategy for CC if I could, but I never seem to get the time.

I know, that's some false humility from me right there

I look forward to playing with you two soon! I bet you are fun to play with! Thanks for the replies and the banter.