Final Table. Fold or Call?

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d4tart

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I make it to the final table in a $500 guarantee on Bovada. I'm second in chips with the chip leader to my right. First hand dealt at the final table I see KK. Short stack shoves all in, a few folds and chip leader shoves all in. I tank for maybe 30 seconds thinking big stack is isolating with maybe a weak ace or two broadway cards. I'm also hoping they both have an ace leaving only 2 left in the deck for me to dodge. I assume I have the best hand and call. Short stack turns over A8 off and chip leader turns over AA. I see his aces and am super deflated. I end up getting lucky and flopping another king. I take the pot down and am now overwhelming chip leader and end up taking the tourney down for a modest $170. I realize I got it in bad and got lucky. Is anybody folding here? Can anybody argue for waiting for a better spot? Thoughts?
 
steveiam

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Tough decision, you have 69% equity against 2 random hands so the initial reaction would be to call as you are only behind to one hand in the deck.

I would call but i would imagine there will be a few people who would fold and look to ladder up the money.
 
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ravpl

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This is a difficult decision on the on hand You are chipleader(probably had really more chips than other)if u win but on the other side u could go away. I would call here because KK is monster hand and i want to win tournament. Oufcorse we have no read on this player u should to write next time something about oponnents. And u need to convert hand
 
BoddJonar

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Tough spot. I would probably fold in that situation, since I always look to climb the money ladder and I'd rather avoid the chipleader since he has the capability of knocking me out. I'm not saying that I always do that, it depends on the situation.
 
IPlay

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Can never fold kings to an open shove later in a tournament. People are shoving light and others know that so they are calling light. The chip leader could of had a pair of tens and called with them for all you know. Just a cooler in that spot.
 
horizon12

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i call easy , this look like isolate short stack, i am sure he have very wide range 55+ A5+ , many connectors, our KK very strong what fold. If he show AA we were just unlucky, but this call very profitable.
 
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jj20002

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way easy call, yes is a final table, but i think that with kings you have to go, if you lose, you do it playing the best poker, because if you are playing to win it all, there is no better chance to derail the chip leader than holding queens, kings or aces and if he shove first being the chip leader and in late position against one shortstack, his range is wide open an aces are the more unlikely hole cards

and consider that you are the second in hips so you just need to beat the chip leader to stay alive, and with king against any two you are front runner in a 70-30

in this specific hand at first surprised to see him holding aces but the outcome was the first step to seal the final winning
 
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lost2qandisa

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I agree, I would have made that call without hesitation.
 
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jsaw

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Circa 2004, this is an easy fold. But the game has changed so much - circa 2014 this is a call.
 
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packernation85

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i would have folded to be safe, but at any other point in the tourney, a call makes sense
 
dj11

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Tough decision, you have 69% equity against 2 random hands

Here is where statistics fail us. We will not be up against random hands. We will be up against most pairs above 88, and most big Ax's.
 
hobonc

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I like the call here. It looked like big stack was isolating. If you do run into aces the same thing that happened is always a possibility and if you didn't hit a set you have already made the FT. I just think it would be the better decision most of the time.
 
tony4680

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Definitely situational but if the final table was the first time you've been seated with the chip leader and you don't know much about him it seems like a isolation move and would snap call. I think I could fold if I had played quite a few hands with villain and had a sense of how he played his big stack with other big stacks left to act. Like I said completely situational I think it's a call the majority of the time unless the big stack is a super NIT with so narrow a range you could be way behind or chopping a good chunk of the time. Might also fold if every other player is extremely shallow and I can pretty much guarantee myself a top 3 spot without taking this risk.
 
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haihai

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Unless you have a perfect read on your opponent, I don't see how you're folding KK preflop. With QQ/AK I think villain would do the same thing.
 
steveiam

steveiam

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Here is where statistics fail us. We will not be up against random hands. We will be up against most pairs above 88, and most big Ax's.

Agreed we are actually only behind to one hand.
 
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detourglr

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that is a tough decision.. not sure what I would do.
first thing depending what I feel these person players personlalities are... if they are a rock then I def would fold..
I think prize money would effect my decision. if it is a low buy in tournament where the prize money would make a difference in my life. Like the wsop Main Event I would fold. though this is the worst decision becuase you play to win the tournament..
but if you win this hand you most likely have this tournament wrapped up.
 
Arjonius

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Easy call. Your primary concern is beating the chip leader, not winning the hand outright. And if your read is that he'll shove to iso with a range that includes hands like Ax and two broadways, you're well ahead of that range.

This is a great spot to get in position to cash high and win. There's no way I can justify folding here just because his range also includes AA. Not unless creeping up the pay scale means many thousands of dollars more each time. And even then, it's not good poker.
 
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aznman08

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To me it's a situation that will be a gut checker since it's easily shown that chip leader is looking to isolate with at least an Ace. Your goal in tournaments is to do what it takes to win, this includes having KK crack AA when its the chip leaders going into battle. If you're folding here, you really need to say to yourself that he has AA and that requires a very strong read on him in order to do that.
 
Vhyre

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An easy call that deep. Folding in this case would only happen if the the money huge and every position added big money.
 
duggs

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Here is where statistics fail us. We will not be up against random hands. We will be up against most pairs above 88, and most big Ax's.

lol and whats our equity v that range?
 
duggs

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the answer is 70% v AJ 88+ so thats our equity in the side pot.

in the main pot we have 58% when shorty shoves 22+ AT+ A8s+ T9s+ QT+
 
duggs

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you guys are also missing the fact that 50% might be break even equity to gii HU, but 3way its 33% with no side pot.
 
Poker Orifice

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Posting payouts & stack sizes of all players is helpful (not like I'm folding though).
Not sure how many bb's the shortstack is showing with & from what position... or what position villain is re-shoving from (you'd think with AA they'd be more apt. to flat the ss shove, in hopes of trapping or inducing... but hard to say without knowing 'if they think' & what they think you're thinking... or if they think about thinking about you thinking... & as mentioned, what position they're doing this from & position of other stacks, the ss, yourself, etc.).
 
helpspb

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Tough spot. Wouldn't be happy to call, but I can't imagine folding here. Short stack will shove wide and big stack really might be just isolating, so folding KK is not a good decision,imo. I know we all want to take top spots since jumps between prizes are quite big, but I can't see myself folding here. QQ would be diff story.
 
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