Final table, 18 sit and go, shoved QJ after hitting top pair

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pat3392

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I'm in the money, with only 3 players left. The player coming second had probably about 5-8 more big blinds than me, whilst the chip leader had over double of both are chips put together. The chip leader called too many hands, and played quite loosely, so, she was a fish. Whilst the player coming second is a TAG player. I had about 6-7 big blinds.

Ok, see here it is: I am in the big blind, chip leader limps and so does TAG in the small blind. I found this quite odd, since he seemed to be playing fold or shove, I could not recall him limping. I look down at QJ suited, thinking of shoving, but decided against it, as I had shoved a fair bit on the final table, and I was suspicious of the TAG.

The flop comes, 2-mid to low cards and the Q, all hearts, completely missing my suited cards. TAG raises minimum. I decided to shove with my top pair. Chip leader called with AQ, no hearts, and TAG folded medium pockets. Did I make the right move? I did not think I could call, since it gave them an opportunity to obtain there last heart and They could go all in on the turn/river anyway. I thought I could not fold, since I had top pair.

This is my first post so sorry if I did something wrong.... Thanks in advance!
 
Poker Orifice

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With a ShortStack that small I really don't think you'd have any fold equity there with the shove but the shove is still what you need to do for sure (you can't fold an unraised pot with TPMK at that point and with SB leading out he's most likely weak,.... << if he was strong he'd more likely be check-raising & if he had something like TPTK he would've raised pre most likely or even shoved (although you haven't mentioned their stack sizes exactly, just a rough idea of a comparison of sizes).

Worst play would've been to just call.. but shoving/calling isn't going to make much difference when you have no fold equity.. "BUT" it is going to increase your chances of getting the pot to be 'HeadsUp' vs. either the CL or the SB who led out. (in this case though it sounds like you were hooped).
 
Poker Orifice

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moral of story,... try not to let your stack get that short. Unless perhaps this was a turbo format and blinds were huge (ie. 200/400+)
 
salim271

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There is no 'just call' with 6-7 BBs left, like Orifice said, your fold equity has been diminished to the point that anyone can call you with anything but complete junk. Seeing a flop with two other players and the two weakest face cards was just wrong.

In poker honestly you should be folding or raising, there really is no middle ground (Calling is only alright when you have the nuts or are chasing a draw imo). At the point of the SnG you were at, it was folding or shoving it all in.
 
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WiZZiM

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There is no 'just call' with 6-7 BBs left, like Orifice said, your fold equity has been diminished to the point that anyone can call you with anything but complete junk. Seeing a flop with two other players and the two weakest face cards was just wrong.

In poker honestly you should be folding or raising, there really is no middle ground (Calling is only alright when you have the nuts or are chasing a draw imo). At the point of the SnG you were at, it was folding or shoving it all in.


wrong? didnt both players limp... are we supposed to fold instead of check? :D
 
ImolAyrton

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In the endfase with an average of 7-8bb its not bad to shove top pair
 
Bigsmak

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What was the AQ doing just limping at this stage?
 
Poker Orifice

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There is no 'just call' with 6-7 BBs left, like Orifice said, your fold equity has been diminished to the point that anyone can call you with anything but complete junk. Seeing a flop with two other players and the two weakest face cards was just wrong.

In poker honestly you should be folding or raising, there really is no middle ground (Calling is only alright when you have the nuts or are chasing a draw imo). At the point of the SnG you were at, it was folding or shoving it all in.

I was actually referring to the play on the flop (although in 'most cases' you're not wanting to 'call' with a portion of your stack if you're <10bb 'BUT' there are exceptions >>> a) a 'go & go' b) a 'stop 'n go' c) completing SB when ur wanting to maximize any hopes of getting BB ai with you, whether it be on the flop or if they choose to ship it allin on you
 
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Good first post, Pat - and welcome.

At this stage of a tourney the shove is the best play - you have got top pair with a reasonable kicker and are getting called by Bigstack if they have hit any bit of the board, including the flush draw. Most often you will double up through them and be in reasonable shape for heads up play. I imagine the SB is pretty much pot committed, so if Bigstack folds you will probably get a call there with a fairly wide range, half of which you beat.

The other option is to fold, with the hope that Bigstack will knock out the other smallstack and guarantee you second. The trouble here is that if SS doubles up you are in poor shape and if BS wins it is going to be tough to win heads up. A fold says you are willing to settle for second.

When I am in this situation I would try like heck to find a reason to fold... and then shove and hope for the best.
 
BeaverTrump

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In this situation I always re-reise all-in on BB!!!
 
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