Extreme Small Stack

U

unstoppable4

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Total posts
245
Chips
0
In huge tournaments with over 1000 people is it really such a bad idea to allow yourself to let the blinds get to a level where you only have like 5 big blinds left? After playing tournaments for years it seems like I go much further into tournaments when i'm willing to leave myself with some chips left rather than shoving when i'm shortstacked. It seems like you can be in last place the whole tournament as long as your still in the tournament and you can still place very well. after all, you can be 1048 of 1048, then later be 520 of 520, and eventually survive long enough to be 2 of 2. So is it really that bad to end up shortstacked if your not getting any hands while you wait for a reasonable hand to play?
 
U

uarejelly

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Total posts
111
Chips
0
better to wait for your hands and be short stacked and shove with a premium hand then do silly raises with like a 6 offsuit from early position to try and maintain the chip average.. but being a big stack has its benefits you can bull short stacks near the bubble and get some easy folds to pick up the blinds
 
snklzona

snklzona

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Total posts
300
Chips
0
IMO the main reason for getting your money in while you still have 10x or 9x or there abouts is when you double you actually end up with a reasonable amount and are not in immediate danger all over again...9x doubled is 18x...double 4x and you are still very short at 8x...just my 2 cents
 
B

BomTombadil

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2013
Total posts
100
Chips
0
I don't think it's important to try to keep up with the chip average, but getting super short isn't a good thing. You might go deeper if you don't look for spots to gamble when you have less than 10 bb's, but I'm guessing you'll be making less money in the long run. I'm not suggesting that you shove any 2 cards from any spot when you get fewer than 10 bb's but you really do need to start looking for places to get it in and not wait for a monster.
 
steveiam

steveiam

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Total posts
3,625
Chips
0
Some of my best results have come just by staying in and waiting for a premium hand which means going below 10bb. I'm not going to shove with any 2 cards just because I have 10bb
 
SicKBeATz

SicKBeATz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Total posts
330
Chips
0
Some of my best results have come just by staying in and waiting for a premium hand which means going below 10bb. I'm not going to shove with any 2 cards just because I have 10bb

Well I don't think that is what the 10bb guide is for.

It's more for if you're going to play a hand for a raise it should be all in or fold mainly b/c you will still have some fold equity with your stack vs most players and you can't really raise fold too much when you are getting that short.

However some ppl including myself tend to get in desperation mode sometimes. This happened to me the last time I went deep in a turbo, I had about 8-10bb's and shoved KTo in the CO even though the avg stack size was around 10bb's. So I think structure and stack sizes should be taken into account as well not just how many bb's you have.
 
P

ph0n3_j4ck

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Total posts
222
Chips
0
Generally, when blinds get higher you can earn more when you double up. Several times I've seen the short stack skyrocket up in a couple hands. Early on if you're just not catching any cards at all, thats all you can do. Right as you a valuable hand, ship it and pray.
 
B

Bbww12

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 31, 2013
Total posts
5
Chips
0
When u got a good hand it time to bet all in or raise depend of the move of last player if they fold or just call . Waiting the good hand to have chance of gain chips it better then being wasted by blind and antes
 
B

beerobrian

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 17, 2013
Total posts
63
Chips
0
I like to call the short stacks at the table when their all-in bet is only 3 times the big blind. I get lucky alot of the time and it doesn't effect my ship stack very much. I think many players have this mentality, so this is why I will never let my chip stack dwindle to where my all in bet is not formitable enough for someone to think twice to call.
 
S

swissarmy

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Total posts
29
Chips
0
I like to call the short stacks at the table when their all-in bet is only 3 times the big blind. I get lucky alot of the time and it doesn't effect my ship stack very much. I think many players have this mentality, so this is why I will never let my chip stack dwindle to where my all in bet is not formitable enough for someone to think twice to call.

I agree I think a few years ago you could navigate a tourney with shorter stacks but now more people will call light...you have to find ways to chip up at the very least shoving in late position or blind versus blind...instead of being the player who always gets sucked out on with big hands be the player with the big stack who can afford to call and "get lucky"
 
PurgatoryD

PurgatoryD

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Total posts
736
Chips
0
If you let your stack get too low, then you no longer have any fold equity. With a 10BB shove, middle to low stacks will generally leave you alone with marginal hands. So you still have a chance to steal blinds. Stealing blinds can keep you alive for a while until you get some cards.

When I'm short stacked, I usually keep my eye on the large stacks. If they fold before me, I see that as an opportunity to shove.
 
Michael Paler

Michael Paler

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Total posts
1,203
Chips
0
Five Big Blinds? FIVE?

Wow, sounds familiar! Well, if I am trying to just "make the money" maybe, but It just isn't enough to do any good, and likely to end up 3 big blinds, where you will get several callers. This isn't good. Even if you wait and get AA, with this little you could see many far larger stacks call your all in. Big hands suffer the most with the most callers, so 5 will not deter say, any 35 to 50 BB stacks from calling with hands that could suck out on you.

This is what usually happens to me if I do this. I'll finally get those aces or kings, but then get three or four callers. Someone will hit a set, 2 pair, a straight, or something that kills me.

Plus, many players will assume you have something good and play "over-your-head"; They know they might lose those 5 blinds, but might make 10 if they play it right off the others. And, still maybe take you out as well. That's great if you survive, you can more than double up. But then, you are still short stacked. Now how long will it be until AA gets to you again? Once you get back to 5 BB's? Ugh.:D
 
J

jcdagenius

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
295
Chips
0
shoving with shortstack is much more +ev then min raisng folding. I think shoving is best option off maxium value alone plus many reasons. im not trying to just cash or pay jump I play to win whole tournament and shortstack shoving is best play for that. I prefer not to let my stack get so short if I can prevent it
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
It's not all about lasting longer. If you shove 5BB and win, you still have a shove or fold stack. Otoh, if you had shoved earlier when you had 10BB, you'd have had a more playable stack if you had won. If you lost, you went out earlier but what did it really cost you? Basically, the very small chance of blinding down then mounting the big comeback. It does happen, but in most situations likely a large majority, it's not probable enough to be worth playing for it.
 
AtiFCOD

AtiFCOD

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
May 29, 2009
Total posts
6,052
Awards
2
Chips
109
In tournament play the target is to get in top3, because these places pay well enough. Elite tournament players usually stats shoving under 20-25BBs. But usually under 10BBs player must shove with anything at a good situation. Even a 23o have chance against Aces, so never let your stack go under 10BBs if you want to win a tour. ;)
 
C

cashwig

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
11
Chips
0
I think you must first ask yourself what your goals are. If your goal is to cash then hang on to the small stack as long as you can. But if your goal is to make the real money in the first three spots then you gotta gamble and try to make your small stack into a medium or large stack with a chance to win the tournament.
 
C

coelho2013

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
64
Chips
0
use a strategy to be more agressivel the tournament with good hands and position, it walks leading me to have more positive than negative.
 
LuckyBundy13

LuckyBundy13

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Total posts
512
Chips
0
I have always preached "stay above the structure" and you won't have to worry about being short stacked. If you happen to be in that type of situation (short stacked) it doesn't hurt to know your push/fold "charts". I'm used to playing SNG' so it's all 2nd nature. Once you're under 10 beebs and no one has opened, it's push fold time. If you're going to raise/fold a 10 bb stack, u have no business playing tournaments.
 
L

Loki

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Total posts
41
Chips
0
Ofcourse it's a bad idea man! I mean, 5 bbs! Lets say you get your AK that you were waiting for at 5 bb, youll only be able to make like 7bb from an allin if you win!!! But on the other hand, if you were to do an allin with your 10bb, youd be able to make like 14 or so bb with a hand like JQ. I mean, you might even steal the blinds as well. YOu have to look at everything through the equity value eyes man. If the equity value is there, then do it.
 
trekmaster

trekmaster

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Total posts
332
Chips
0
I personaly dont mind playing the short stack.Seems like when I keep a large stack throu out the tour when I get to final table I run cold and end up with a smaller cash than I would like.when I work the short stack the whole tour I run hot at the final table and fininsh in the top spots.
 
italiano

italiano

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Total posts
293
Chips
0
The truth is that end of 1048 or 1048 520 520 is very sad but good sometimes happens, and I would say to comfort is yours but be eliminated in the position before cashing in a tournament or end at position 9 before the end table!
 
Top