Doubling Up Early: Is It Really Worth It ?

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SinkieCon

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Hi all, just a quick question that might have been asked before but if say your holding AKS or AKof is it worth risking your tournament life early with no reads on the villian that's shoving ?

What you guys think ?
 
tazer

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I'd say just go ahead and play the hands. At the beginning stages people will shove with anything. I say open with a good amount bet, if they call great if they don't thats fine as well. Play the hand out and see how it goes from there.

I think there is a time when open shoving these hands is the right play, but at the beginning it could be a sketchy play.
 
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I wouldn't shove early with AK since if they have a low pair, you still have to hit. You will get better positions throughout the game...or at least more AK's you can play with down the road.
 
DaveE

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Yes....go for it. If they hold up you can make moves that you wouldn't be able to make with ~ even stacks. If you lose...so be it, just fire up another one.
 
steveiam

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I wouldn't open shove early with AK in a tourney, but i know a lot of people would.
 
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Scrover

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I would shove myself in small stakes, because people can call off with small pairs (which you're a coinflip), weaker aces can call this off and also I don't mind a flip because somehow you've got to accumulate chips later in the tournament and I steal pots (maybe a bit too much) in smaller stakes. But in higher buy in's, I would just play it normally because it's only a drawing hand and all I'm willing to give up at most is a double barrel with Ace King High.
 
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SinkieCon

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Yah thanks guys, I've been thinking about it a lot, as some people are willing to take a risk preflop only if they have a solid read which half of the time I don' haha
 
suby_rafael

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No it is not worth putting your tournament life at risk so early in a tournament. After all AK is just Ace high. Your hand is behind to any pair and if villian likes to gamble then there is a good chance of him busting you out of the tournament or crippling you. In some cases you might even be against pocket kings or aces. So risking a large chunk of your stack on just Ace high would be lunatic. This is to be considered only when the blinds are much higher.
 
Arjonius

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As usual in poker, the answer is that it depends. A couple of factors that should move you toward being more willing to play for your tournament life, even early are if you're in a field where the ability level is above yours, and if the structure is shallow.

Note this does not mean shoving in or calling off your stack any time with AK is okay. It does mean you should look at the entire situation, not just your two cards.
 
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Whats your opponents shoving range?

Does he shove with lets say QQ+,AKs? Then Fold.

Does he shove with JT, Ax, min-raise with all big pairs, and limp all small pairs? then call
 
S3mper

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Depends on the tournament structure, tournament type, field size, and payout structure.

If the structure is turbo the % of the time you should call goes up.

If the tournament type is a rebuy tournament the % of times you should call willg o up as if you win you double up giving yourself a better chance to win and if you lose you can rebuy.

If the tournament size is extremely large it's a variance mind field and these extra chips early can really help you out down the road % goes up.

The smaller amount of places that pay the more you need chips..

Other side

If Tournament structure is long or deep stacked there is no need to put so many chips at risk early with AK pre flop..

If it's a freeze out and if you lose your done (with deep stack structure) then fold equity goes up
 
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thanks S3mper, I normally play $1.10 with stacks at 3k I hardly every play the rebuy tournaments due to the high variance and the amount of crazy's that are in them once or twice I've gotten almost to the FT but never cashed in the big money's.

I'm mostly lasting at least the 4 hour mark then getting bust after a stupid call or by getting really unlucky.
 
psy0nyd3

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Generally speaking if I still have time to wait for something to connect or a good spot to make a move I would fold that. Unless like OB said the guy is a whacko then flip it!
 
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It depends.
Many factors involve-structure, stacks, M/zone, opponents personality, your BR, his position, etc.
Since you said its still early, are you willing to gamble on coin flips?
Do you want to call the shoving or should you be the one doing the shoving? :)
 
teepack

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Whats your opponents shoving range?

Does he shove with lets say QQ+,AKs? Then Fold.

Does he shove with JT, Ax, min-raise with all big pairs, and limp all small pairs? then call

Early in a tourney, you are probably not going to have any kind of read, especially an online tourney, where picking up reads is difficult. If it's a rebuy tourney, then by all means call. People go nuts in rebuy tourneys. If it's not a rebuy tourney and you are still at or above the chip average, then you really gotta go with what your gut is telling you. I don't think it is an automatic fold, but I think staying alive to fight another day is always a good strategy.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I agree with whoever said it depends on the structure. The better the structure and the deeper the starting stacks the less I'm looking to flip.

the reverse is true of a bad structure...you may not get a lot of chances to hold strong hands like AK and get action on them. Also, because the structure is bad the value of doubling up early is worth more because you won't get a ton of chances to use your post flop play to outplay people later...so you'll need those chips to weather the blinds and possibly survive a flip later that goes the wrong way.

Also, how strong of a player I think I am relative to the field, but especially relative to my table. If I'm one of the better players at my table, I'll avoid the flips. If I'm having a tough time at my table or my table is stacked with players I know to be good (even if they're not all better than me, but they're just all solid) then I figure a fair flip with AK is an OK outcome.

A note: I prefer to be the pusher in a flip situation almost all the time. If I decide to call then I'll be more inclined to call with hands like AK than with hands like 77
 
rytciaq

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Depends what type of tournament it is. In freeroll, I think it's worth to risk to get a doubleup, but in tournaments that doesn't accept rebuys, I would just fold any hand that has a decent possibility to lose.
 
eidikos

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i cant understand your +ev in such coinflips early in the tournament
there are no blinds to steal there
 
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i cant understand your +ev in such coinflips early in the tournament
there are no blinds to steal there

I try my best not to call or shove with AK early in the tournaments I'm asking is it worth doing it might be to some people but not me.
 
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I always fold the AK early till get a little better read on who is at the table also seam to be unlucky calling one of them all in guys anyway . The way I play it if you set back and wait most of the time a guy or girl like that will hang there self so for me its always better to lay low and wait the will do it again when you have a made hand .
 
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trent32la

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A lot depends on table dynamics etc. If a maniac is shoving you should be calling off/shoving AK...if you feel you have a skill edge at the table you likely should not unless u know that you are ahead for sure...I usually don't see a problem with it early on in tourneys however
 
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thatgreekdude

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so many factors would influence me calling off a shove with AK, just to name a few, is it a rebuy? size of buy-in? Multi entry? re-entry? super turbo? etc.. if it's for example a microstakes super turbo rebuy i'll have no problem getting it in with AK for a quick double up, if it's say the sunday million at stars i'd definitely say it's an easy fold early on
 
DarkRoster33

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I would always care, just yesterday lost 2 games with KK in my hands to bullshit, not worth falling out so early if i would quad up later anyway
 
theRaven68

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There is not one answer on that question, dont shove and wait for an safer hand or try to double up, as it is said in earlier posts it depends by various things such as structure, type, field size and payout structure,
for me, very important is how do you feel at the moment, do you feel ready or not
 
Staneff

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Not worth it to risk early going all-in hoping for double up. U dont need to be a chip leader 1st 20, 50 or 100 min of the tournament. U need to get the chip leader on the final table and give your best playing there. Dont risk it all early on tournaments. U will get chips when u have cards to play with and all-in is never needed for that.
 
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