Double or Nothing Sit N Gos

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scooba13

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For a bit of low variance fun, I've been trying out double or nothing sit n gos where 10 sit down and 5 first places are awarded.

My normal Sit N Go strategy goes from super tight to tight to loose (depending on villains, stacks) as the blinds escalate.

But for Double or nothings the best strategy seems to be to avoid confrontations at all costs - I try to avoid being second in the pot with anything but a super-premium hand. In very high blinds there always seems to be an unfortunate AA v KK cooler between other players.

My questions are: how do you play (or would you play) double or nothings and does anyone know of any ICM resources where I could look at the math in more detail? I guess they play like a supersatellite where the same prize is awarded to the top 5... what is correct play at each phase with short, medium and large (but not deep) stack?
 
gundacker

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I hate playing Double or Nothing sNg's cause it really is lacking action.

It's like a junior high dance with the girls on one side and the boys on the other with everyone scared to make the first move.
 
maik357

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With the technique I use I win out of 10 double or nothings usually 7. I begin by stealing. Raising slightly above pot, usually from mid to late position. If I have monsters in early position same tactic. You are bound to lose a few rounds and depending on the loss. Tighten up play naturally. If I see that a KK8 comes in flop where I have tried to steal and 1 or more have called this is a good oppurtunity to c-bet or raise to pot bet. Usually all fold. Reason being is that most play tight, so play a little aggressive, but not to aggressive. Later in game when you have at least 2K then it is time to tighten up due to the BB size and some will eventually have Monsters. Good luck on your next games. However you decide to play them.
 
TheBigFinn

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IMHO, DON SNGs are like regular SNGs on steroids. You need to play really tight against tight players and looser against others. One needs to give enough action to get action on the monsters against the LAGs. In almost all case it comes down to understanding the push fold game at the bubble.
 
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joe777

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Observe the table dynamic,then decide whether to widen your range or not.
 
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scooba13

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Thanks for replies

IMHO, DON SNGs are like regular SNGs on steroids. You need to play really tight against tight players and looser against others. One needs to give enough action to get action on the monsters against the LAGs. In almost all case it comes down to understanding the push fold game at the bubble.

This is interesting - isn't the best thing to do in normal tournaments to play loose vs tight & tight vs loose?

LAGs seem to have the advantage (at least the non-suicidal ones) in that few (at least at the micro level I'm playing) players play back at a raise.

The issue I have with playing back at a raise - even with a good hand is that after the first 2 or 3 levels you're pretty much comitting your whole stack (or risking facing the bubble at high blinds short stacked). I think that entering any confrontation is basically bad for you and the confronter/confrontee in ICM terms unless you can get them to fold.

gundacker's right about action - especially at the bubble - it seems to play the opposite of a normal SNG when some players don't care about 4th because they want to win - in a normal SNG it's worth playing AK to a raise even if you risk going out. In Do0 I think you should fold AK (even KK? even AA?) if there's a super short stack who is likely to be blinded out.
 
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I think these types of games are really good practice for bubble play since a lot of players are hanging for the money
 
Shempstir

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In Do0 I think you should fold AK (even KK? even AA?) if there's a super short stack who is likely to be blinded out.

I don't think I would play this tight. Especially with AA.

I think these types of games are really good practice for bubble play since a lot of players are hanging for the money

I would agree with this.
 
Mordecoke

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I play tight and I try to steal blinds in late or mid position (can be costly, esp. later in the sit n go)
I've folded qq and ak because someone else was at risk of getting knocked out in an all in situation by another player.
For example I raised with qq and ak in early position, I then get 3-bet by another player with a larger stack in both situations, and then some other player shoves all in with a similar stack to mine.
In both situations, I was right.
In the qq situation I was 3-bet by a player who had kk.
And in the Ak situation I was shoved on with AA

Tip: You got to be prepared to make big lay downs at times because the risk sometimes does not equal the reward.
Also, in both situations we were close to the money.
It's a crazy roller coaster!
 
Rawdeal1955

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The good thing about then is you can different styles loose tight and just mix it up. In one of Doyle s book I read that in some low stakes poker you can sit back watch the action and place third and I tried it on a two dollar and it work. I don't recommend it all the time. Low games are good to learn different styles.
 
TeUnit

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i am a firm believer that a 30% vpip is no where near optimal in a don, icm is the driving factor in these, and that- suggests extremely tight play

in fact at the low limits, you can probably play even tighter with the "implosion factor" ie villians calling allins with aq and ak for no reason
 
Sh4rKi

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Do you think is these SnG worth their prices? I mean I an be a profitable player with the Double or Nothing SnG-s? What is the best tactic??
 
TeUnit

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yes the are worth it, peeps play them very bad, and they are very easy to multi table
 
moses59

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i really like double or nothings quick and easy money
 
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DrHorrible

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I just don't like to play poker when the best I can do is double up.
 
Antonio22777

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For a bit of low variance fun, I've been trying out double or nothing sit n gos where 10 sit down and 5 first places are awarded.

My normal Sit N Go strategy goes from super tight to tight to loose (depending on villains, stacks) as the blinds escalate.

But for Double or nothings the best strategy seems to be to avoid confrontations at all costs - I try to avoid being second in the pot with anything but a super-premium hand. In very high blinds there always seems to be an unfortunate AA v KK cooler between other players.

My questions are: how do you play (or would you play) double or nothings and does anyone know of any ICM resources where I could look at the math in more detail? I guess they play like a supersatellite where the same prize is awarded to the top 5... what is correct play at each phase with short, medium and large (but not deep) stack?
IMHO You may as well go find someone to flip coins with.LOL. Double or nothing SNG's are not for me.
 
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VYtautasLu

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I remember playing them just for fun to get to the highest one in the shortest period of time... I understood then, it's not so easy lol
 
dj11

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I too do DoN's but only 6 max games. Those tend to be boringly long games comparatively, and a FR game of 10 seats would be too much.

I play true TAG in these. As Mordecoke said, I will seldom be 2nd into a pot with anything less than monsters. Unless it was limped to me and I hold semi-monsters....~~TT + or so. When I hit I do the agro part of TAG, leaving villains little option do do anything other than shove, or fold. And I don't like leaving them the option to shove.

I have found that the harder versions of DoN's are the cheaper games. So $1-5 games are tuffer than $6+ games. Folks playing extra cheap are probably there on a lifeline, and doubling up is more necessary than it is for folks playing higher BI games.
 
bezobrazny

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For a bit of low variance fun, I've been trying out double or nothing sit n gos where 10 sit down and 5 first places are awarded.

My normal Sit N Go strategy goes from super tight to tight to loose (depending on villains, stacks) as the blinds escalate.

But for Double or nothings the best strategy seems to be to avoid confrontations at all costs - I try to avoid being second in the pot with anything but a super-premium hand. In very high blinds there always seems to be an unfortunate AA v KK cooler between other players.

My questions are: how do you play (or would you play) double or nothings and does anyone know of any ICM resources where I could look at the math in more detail? I guess they play like a supersatellite where the same prize is awarded to the top 5... what is correct play at each phase with short, medium and large (but not deep) stack?


It's important to mix your play and avoid some major confrontations but not at all coast, if you are strong. Well, building your stack on double size should be your goal before blinds goes crazy when you can use your stack to still pot whenever it's possible.
 
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