Donk strategy profitable?

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johnsonrod

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Lol, no this thread isn't about playing like a donk.
There is a huge misconception out there among old timers (such as myself) and very experienced tourney players regarding donks, fish, all in monkeys, call them what you will.
Everybody is aware of the "crazies" at the beginning stages of large field Mtt's but are they all donks? don't bet on it.
Many experienced tourney players are coming to the realization that their time is almost as important as their money. We all know that in most tournaments we will not get ITM regardless of the strategy, this is just the reality of tournament play.
Now I'm not talking about shoving 72o or shoving any two cards (their the true donks) I'm talking about expanding your range of playable hands at the early stages to include such hands as mid pairs,suited connectors, and any 2 over cards.
Chipping up early and often will give you a huge advantage later in the tournament (regardless of what the TAG players believe).Look at some of the players at the final table. I bet you will see 1 or 2 players that you were sure was a donk hours earlier, oops. Don't believe these players will still be playing kamikaze poker in the later stages.
Will they still be playing very aggressive? absolutely. Their trying to go deep and WIN. Their tired of playing for hours on end with very little to show for it other than the occasional min cash
So this thread is really about time management and giving yourself a better chance to cash by playing more tourneys (because you will bust out more often) than your average frustrated TAG player.
The moral of the story? ONE large cash at the final table will be far more profitable than many small min cashes will ever be.....and you'll save yourself a lot of time to boot.
So do you need to get lucky to play this way? of course you do, but you need to get lucky to win any tournament.
If you really want to know if someones a donk then check out their cash play not their tourney play. And remember,when you see 3 or 4 all ins on the first hand....one of them has most likely won far more than you over the long haul.:eek:
 
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bnasp2

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I really dont think you will improve you chance for FT by going all-in crazy at first hands (not unless you are holding a monster).
Yes, it important to aim for first 3 places, not for min-cash.
But I would say those profitable players are going via many small pots and not many coin-flips.
Yes, you need to win some flips, but not too many and usually not for all your chips.
 
FromHereOn

FromHereOn

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If I see AA, AK or KK on the 1st or 2nd hand of any tournament, I will donk-shove in early position, or if the board is limp-heavy.

Any shove that early has a massive perceived range from any ace to any two cards if opponents have no clue about your play.

Similar strategy is portrayed in a fake-tilt shove after a bad beat. Any chance to misrepresent your experience or state-of-mind gives opportunities to win calls from average/fair hands.
 
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hffjd2000

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I notice too such LAG would make them bust right away or have a massive stack early. TAG would be on the middle of the pack.
 
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ilostmysoul

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It's just one approach out of many. Some people prefer to play tight and wait for good hands/blind increase to wide their range and get chips in, others prefer to wide their range from the start and tighten up after. Basically the same thing.

Although the latter is mathematically incorrect. If you have 50BBs, then it's a mistake to risk them on a flip (or worse) to win 5 or 6. Assuming you are not the only good player at the table following that strategy, here's what will happen:

1. You will go all-in for 50BBs, nobody will have a barely decent hand to call, and all you win is the dead money in the pot (which is a 1.5-to-50 ratio, which is awful). This is the best case scenario.

2. Someone playing the same strategy than you will call with a fair hand, and now you are most likely on a flip for your tournament life right from the start, which is totally not worth it since the blinds are so small at this stage.

3. Someone playing tight will call you and now you're way behind.

Meanwhile, someone who actually waited for a while will be playing the same hands as you on a much profitable situation. For example, Q9s is an awful all-in in the early stages, but when the blinds increase so much that you have 12BB, it's a pretty good shove, and if you double up to 24BB you are still in pretty good shape.
 
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Hajniiii

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i play just pair of my hands , and AJ-AK KK QQ JJ
 
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MaxDamage

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If I see AA, AK or KK on the 1st or 2nd hand of any tournament, I will donk-shove in early position, or if the board is limp-heavy.

Any shove that early has a massive perceived range from any ace to any two cards if opponents have no clue about your play.

Similar strategy is portrayed in a fake-tilt shove after a bad beat. Any chance to misrepresent your experience or state-of-mind gives opportunities to win calls from average/fair hands.

I do not recommend this!
This is very dangerous since you have absolutely no information about your opponents hands. They can have 2 pair or a set, which is basically the only thing they should call with. However, a lot of people will call your all-in on a flush draw. Some will even call on a straight draw. And a lot will fold top pair, top kicker right there! This is a losing stragegy, especially against 3 or more opponents if you are first to act.
 
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johnsonrod

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Guys I never said to donk shove anything. I was discussing the strategy of expanding your range of playable hands in the early stages of tourneys, not expanding your range to shove, lol. Now if I get AA-KK-QQ-AK in the first few hands you better believe I'm shipping it.
This was more about playing very aggressive right through the whole tourney from start to finish.Chip up and go for it.
You still have to play smart poker and pick your spots
 
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rawbad

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that's crazy you posted this I see it all the time and most times when I call with high pair 25 will get a straight or 3 of a king CRAZY
 
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johnsonrod

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2 5 ? who's shoving that? calling with high pair? I believe you have better options. 2 5 most times hit their straight or trips? that's even more crazier than you realize. This thread wasn't about bad beats.
 
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RodrigoCL

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I get what you mean johnsonrod, and I kind of agree with the view. I've been a TAG player myself for a long time and it is frustrating to go mincashing every time. I have a decent ITM number (just above 20%), but most of them if not all are min cashes.

Well, in theory this kind of play sounds interesting. I have yet to learn how to make it work for me. Until now when I have tried this I have only found that I lose my chips quite quicker than before by trying to play a wider range of hands.
 
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