Donk moves, or effective in Hyper Turbos?

I am a real newbie, recreational hyper turbo player (only 900 stt hyper turbos on PS). I am up overall by a tiny amount (3% ROI, 34% ITM). Regardless of this, please assume that I know I am a fish and am very interested in getting your take on the following situations, all hyper turbos on PS:

1: $3.50 6-max. First hand, 2 players go all-in with J10o and J3o. Down to five players. Second hand (Blinds 10/20, 4 players with 500~ one with 1000~). UTG min raises, UTG+1 raises all in, BTN all in, SB all in. I am BB with AA and folded - it seemed an easy fold, but is this completely stupid?

2: $7.00 9-max. Blinds 20/40. Everyone folds a tight table. I am SB with A10s. BB has a higher star rating than me. I min raise, he goes all in. I call his 66 and win. He gets abusive. This seems a pretty standard play for me in hyper turbos (where normally I have a huge shoving range, but a much more limited calling range like 1010+, AK, depending on stacks/level etc.). In this situation you are asking for a shove from any weak ace, low pair, bluff etc. And in hyper turbos you can lose lots on risky moves, but win much more in the long run, as many people make this move with junk. If he had AA, or you lose the flip, smile and move on...

3. $30.00 6-max. 4 hands folded. UTG+1 limps. Everyone folds. I raise 3X in BB with AQs. He goes all in. I call and he has J3 and tells me I'm a donk. Is this the right move? In a cash game for sure not, but playing hyper turbos, the kind of move he made seems a huge sign of weakness...

Basically, I am aware that all-in is the most powerful tool in sit and gos, but am trying to learn to add calling them to my range after folding a truck load of better hands when someone goes all in.

Several of us at CC are HTT addicts

You may want to look into these links:


https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/alright-lets-do-underolled-hypers-win-245395/


https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/alright-lets-do-underolled-hypers-win-245395/

1. dont fold aces.

2.star ratings mean f/a. The ATs can be a raise/call against players you know are shoving a linear wide range. It can't be horrendously bad in the $7 games since the overall population is really, really crazy and loose. SO i'm cool with ti, but it's the bottom of my range, as you move up, against unknowns, ATs is usually jsut a raise/fold without reads.


3. yeah seems ok, be careful though raising limpers as the stacks are really shallow, you can get into bad situations postflop here. Shoving pre-flop is the easiest +EV play you can do in those spots.

stop listening to people in the chat, he limped/shoved J3, he's just a troll that lost a buyin, don't worry about it.

As you get better as a SNG player, you will find you are playing well/running well when people are abusing you in the chatbox

1. I know there is a CHANCE you will get sucked out on when you split the equity this many ways, but don't fold aces. You'll win in the long run.

2. This is fine, yes he had a hand with 66, but his shove is many times just going to be a move, especially if he sees your min raise as weak, because it is almost expected for the SB to raise when folded to. You would have had the same chance of winning with A7 through AK- they're all flips.

3. This is fine. You're ahead of 99% of the hands in his range, especially considering what I mentioned for #2. He's the donk

There are some situations in tournament and sng play where it is profitable to fold AA PF, since your equity is calculated by your ICM, unlike stack sizes like cash game.

An extreme case would be a 10 ppl DoN SNG, where 6 people are remaining. Two ppl are very low stacked. You have a medium stack and someone with a larger stack shoves on you with ATC. You have to fold AA here.

I'm lazy to do the math tho for marginal situations

twohaha said:

There are some situations in tournament and sng play where it is profitable to fold AA PF, since your equity is calculated by your ICM, unlike stack sizes like cash game.

An extreme case would be a 10 ppl DoN SNG, where 6 people are remaining. Two ppl are very low stacked. You have a medium stack and someone with a larger stack shoves on you with ATC. You have to fold AA here.

I'm lazy to do the math tho for marginal situations

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Only time you fold aces is when you are close to bubble in satty....
don maybe,but i play fiffty on stars and final position and chip stack determines reward... so i would defo risk getting out there...

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Thanks for all the advice. I haven't been playing long and the ten or so times I have called 3+ people in all-in with AA, they have only held up once.

I see now why this is stupid - in one session my AA lost six out of six times in 2-way all-ins, but that just made me smile, not change direction.

It's pure gut feeling, but on weak tables where I am medium-stacked and likely to be left with just one or max. two players after that hand, it seems easier to pretend that the aces aren't real....

Come on in hyper turbo folded aces.. That's really stupid...

Salvete777 said:

Come on in hyper turbo folded aces.. That's really stupid...

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Thanks for yet another stellar contribution, congrats... :congrats:


OP- with even 3 players all in, we're likely around 40-50% to win this pot, which is a coinflip yes, but a coinflip with a heap of dead money in the pot. Basically it's a huge risk/huge reward spot with the risk being dropping out of the tournament. This isn't a big deal, hypers are as much about collecting VPP's as they are about making profit. The reward is we get the huge stack to bully the bubble and give us a really good chance at an easy win.

I don't think you need to be a poker expert to tell that even if all the people on that table moved all in and you are the last guy with aces what your move should be.There is no denying the fact that you will lose some flips i played some hyper turbos on fulltilt and got kicked out with aces in first hand but math tells me in long run i will win way more hands with aces then i will lose so i go with it but if you had a feel that you were beat then it can not be argued because intuition has a big role n all parts of our life so poker isn't any different.
I really have no issues with rest of your plays i think they are slandered hyper turbo moves which is why you will not find me on any hyper turbo sit and go games.

I won't mention the aces, because you seem to have absorbed the lesson.

In Hypers, I tend to only min raise or 3x raise with hands that I am basically trapping with (like QQ+, AK). Otherwise, just shove. the other time I min raise is when we are heads up.

If you were trying to trap with AQ, then that is fine but I'd prefer to just take it down with a shove. Standard raises are for when you want to play post flop poker. Hypers are not about post flop play, they are about ICM and proper shove/fold ranges. Maybe 1 out of every 3 hypers I play will have 1 hand where I get a little post flop play in, and that is usually just a flop shove. (I min raise with KK, flop comes J hi, I shove. something like that).

also, I see that you played a $30 hyper. if you are truly a newbie you should probably play smaller stakes. maybe you have a huge roll and can afford it...but even by bankroll management guidelines you have to believe you have an edge in a game before you risk ANY of your bankroll on it, or find the smallest stakes you can while you are learning and most likely -EV.

for instance, even if I won 100 million in the lottery, I would not play the $10,000 Pot Limit Omaha event because I'm a fish at PLO. I would work my way up from the $200 range while I "learned the ropes" and limit my bankroll exposure to -EV situations.