DoN Endgame, no calling??

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sweepnet

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I have been reading up on DoNs and have read that article on winning DoNs that someone posted before. By the way, on that note, I have played 118 games at Doyles, so no HUD and have a 9% ROI, 58.5% ITM.

Anyway, I was reading up more on these and am wondering about the end game, specifically. Should I NOT be calling ANY shove that someone else make, no matter what. I guess if I am Big Stack and some else is little it is more questionable, but I have been reading a lot of the posts with the math and how it shows that even KK and AA can be questionable calls math wise, since they can lose. Currently I have been calling with these and and some large Ax hands. I am relatively new and am working through the math work on these things.

I realize that there are always "depends" answers, so I just wondering about a general policy.

I would think if I was getting short stacked myself, this might be the best place to double up, or if someone else was so short that it woulnt hurt me, I think I should call. And if someone is short stacked, make sure I stay out of trouble. But what about the more even stack times.

Currently I am liking the winning with these so am trying to specialize in them, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

Bob
 
blueskies

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If you were in no danger of not making it, and you are challenged by another big stacker where if you lost you would be out or very close to losing, AND it's down to 6 people and there are people close to getting blinded out, then yes don't take the risk.

But in most other situations (which is more likely the case), I would gladly make the call with AA for sure, and likely with KK as well (but again, if villain could eliminate me or do huge damage to my stack, then I reconsider since I am only a little better than 2:1 if he had an A).

The last time I played in one of these I folded 20 straight hands and finished fifth hehe. People were limping a ton and betting when they hit, so I gladly let them take each other out. But usually you need to double up at least once to make it.

There were times where I hope the short stackers would lose so that I could back into the win, but guess what, they doubled up and then I was the short stack... and didn't get the good hands I previously folded and ended up going out on crap like Q9 or 10 7 suited.
 
cardriverx

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DoN, everyone gets the same amount, no advantage to having the most money. When someone takes someone out, the whole table gets an advantage, not just you.

with like 5,000 chips in 1st place with 6 people left to go, with AK I would fold to anyone pushing with 1,000 + chips. Would only call with AA, KK, and QQ (possibly)
 
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If a short stack seems desperate and they are shoving I will likely call if I am chip leader and we will be heads up. If a middle stack or another large stack shoves, I am folding all day. Including possibly AA. KK for sure.
 
blueskies

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I was in a DoN last night where there was a dominant chip leader to my immediate right and everyone else was about the same. I didn’t get many big hands. My best was AQ suited on SB, but there were two shoves ahead of me, and I decided to fold. I thought there were 6 ppl left, but there were actually 7. Had I not miscounted, I may have called. It turns out I would have won (vs. KQ and Q10). I shoved immediately after this with A8 and took down the BB and antes uncontested.

Then not long after, someone shoved with AK, the big stack reshoved with J8 and won. I was eeked out 4th. :D

In a situation like that, it pays to be cautious, especially since big stack seemed perfectly happy to try to push someone out. He was raising a ton at the end after he accumulated a huge stack.
 
cjatud2012

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sweepnet said:
I have been reading up on DoNs and have read that article on winning DoNs that someone posted before. By the way, on that note, I have played 118 games at Doyles, so no HUD and have a 9% ROI, 58.5% ITM.

Anyway, I was reading up more on these and am wondering about the end game, specifically. Should I NOT be calling ANY shove that someone else make, no matter what. I guess if I am Big Stack and some else is little it is more questionable, but I have been reading a lot of the posts with the math and how it shows that even KK and AA can be questionable calls math wise, since they can lose. Currently I have been calling with these and and some large Ax hands. I am relatively new and am working through the math work on these things.

I realize that there are always "depends" answers, so I just wondering about a general policy.

I would think if I was getting short stacked myself, this might be the best place to double up, or if someone else was so short that it woulnt hurt me, I think I should call. And if someone is short stacked, make sure I stay out of trouble. But what about the more even stack times.

Currently I am liking the winning with these so am trying to specialize in them, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

Bob
Click to expand...

In general your calling ranges are going to be much tighter due to ICM considerations. Obviously there are exceptions but this will generally be true.

Do you have SNGWiz? If you're going to be putting in a large volume of these it's an invaluable tool. However, to get the most out of it you would need to know how to use it, and be able to understand and interpret it's results, i.e. "why can I call with the top 10% of hands in some spots but can only call with AA here? Ah, because I had 20bb's before and now I only have 10bb's, and there are also two stacks of less than 5bb's..."
 
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sweepnet

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Thanks for your thoughts. I have done some other reading and am finding most of the answers fit in with these. I have actually switched from playing these on Doyles, as the setup is close to turbo, and with the time frame I sometimes just dont get the cards, and I hit a bad streak and am about to even again. I had 2 games in a row about 60 hands or so and the best I got was A8. And on one of them I ended up out when I got KK and shoved. I will switch my money to PS when I get a chance.

I do have SNF wizard, and have run some of my games through there, and do have a couple spots to work on, but the players seem so loose.
Actually the problems I find is usually that SNGW says I should be looser.

I guess the reason I ask the question in the first place is that one of the last games I played, referenced above, someone raised 3xBB, I shoved with KK, he called with QJs and made a flush, and I was out. And I know that it is situational memory, but I checked my database and about 1/3 of my KK hands played were beaten. Most of the guides to playing these dont really talk about calling ranges, just shoving ranges, so thought I would post the question.

thanks
 
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