does playing non-folders stop at some point?

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dskw

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hello everyone...

i've been playing poker since last august, just sort of messing around, but now i want to take it seriously, and i'm going to start by grinding 6 max sng turbos. i've also been playing the 45 man mttsngs, but i really need to focus one thing. since august i've been jumping from cash, to mtt's, to 9 man. then i played some zoom. so i never really learn anything.

i decided on 6max sng's because i find them less tilting than cash, but i would also like to play mtt's at some point, maybe just as a side thing. i have an impulse control problem in "real life" and that effects me when playing cash, so it's better to be on the safe side, where all i can lose is my buy-in for the stt.

anyway, to the point. there are players that just won't fold. even when i go all in, and they have nothing. however, the last few days when i've been putting in more volume than ever, i keep getting sucked out on the river. the one that made me angry the most was when i lost with AA to 82o. lol... i don't mind losing to a set or something, but that was unreal. the game just before that i lost with a set of kings, because someone had 22 and wouldn't fold, river comes a 2, and they get a full house. they were re- raising me all the way to the river with the two other kings that came out on the flop!! like they knew the 2 was coming!!

i know they don't care because as soon as they bust out they just open another game and do it over again, but it's really bothering me and it makes me not enjoy playing.

i just fold most of the time, because i don't want to give them any more chips than necessary, although i know they more than likely have nothing, because they're raising every hand and street. it just sucks that i'm pretty sure they have nothing but i chicken out and fold.

so i want to start grinding the 1.50 6 max games, and i want to know, does this only happen in the micros? will things get better as i move up stakes? i played a few games this morning, and the other 5 people i was playing with all had vpips between 60 and 85.

at what stakes does this behaviour end, if at all?

i know i need to be able to beat these players to be a better player myself, but i really can't handle it.

i've also started reading a few books and downloaded some videos to help me out, so i really need to get stuck into that.

thanks :)
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Be happy when you have opponents who are willing to get it in way behind. But don't have a false sense of entitlement. Having AA vs 82o or being in a situation where the opponent can only win by rivering a 1- or 2-outer doesn't entitle you to the pot. If just means you're very likely to win it, which also means you'll lose it some of the time.
 
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RamdeeBen

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If small amounts of variance really bothers you to the point where you're not enjoying playing then you shouldn't be really looking to take poker more seriously at the minute until you can either accept variance for what it is. Players, often newer players really underestimate how high variance can be in poker. If you're really struggling to accept variance for what it is, just play more casually like you used to do you probably enjoyed it much more then.

The point is, variance is what makes poker what it is and more importantly profitable in the long term because even the very worse players can win which makes them come back in the future and spew it off somewhere else. If you're playing scared poker at $1.50 levels then ultimately you're never going to be able to build a bankroll or move up in levels. You should be taking lines which are profitable, not let previous results effect your decisions regardless of if they suck out on you 50 times in a row it's impossible to lose over the long term if you're playing correctly no matter how often variance is hitting you.

In regards to your question. No, this doesn't just happen at micros. Variance is less at micros because of the examples you're giving, you should be crushing the games over a large sample if you're facing players like you state so often. The higher you move up in stakes the more variance you will face. If you played a game this morning where 5 players was playing a 60-80 vpip then you should be loving this and you should be crushing the games big time if you're playing correctly yourself? There will always be players at every stakes which are bad but they become less and less the higher you go. Trust me when I say, if you're struggling to beat the limits you're at now facing the absolute best players you possibly can be up against then there is a 0% chance you will beat higher games over a decent sample size.

Best piece of advice I can give is, post hands vs these players you're on about in the forum and get feedback on your play but given you admit yourself you're playing scared vs them, you're likely making so many mistakes yourself. Don't post any bad beats though, they are irrelevant.
 
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dasher

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Good comments from Arjonius and ramdeebam -- take them to heart.

I only want to add that in the S&G's you should try use some pot control so that those beats don't hit so hard. The chips in your stack are more valuable than those in your opponent's stacks. Especially early on in tournaments, try to keep the pot smaller. You know you can't push them off their hands, so just concentrate on winning smaller pots and protecting your own stack.
 
the lab man

the lab man

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If small amounts of variance really bothers you to the point where you're not enjoying playing then you shouldn't be really looking to take poker more seriously at the minute until you can either accept variance for what it is. Players, often newer players really underestimate how high variance can be in poker. If you're really struggling to accept variance for what it is, just play more casually like you used to do you probably enjoyed it much more then.

The point is, variance is what makes poker what it is and more importantly profitable in the long term because even the very worse players can win which makes them come back in the future and spew it off somewhere else. If you're playing scared poker at $1.50 levels then ultimately you're never going to be able to build a bankroll or move up in levels. You should be taking lines which are profitable, not let previous results effect your decisions regardless of if they suck out on you 50 times in a row it's impossible to lose over the long term if you're playing correctly no matter how often variance is hitting you.

In regards to your question. No, this doesn't just happen at micros. Variance is less at micros because of the examples you're giving, you should be crushing the games over a large sample if you're facing players like you state so often. The higher you move up in stakes the more variance you will face. If you played a game this morning where 5 players was playing a 60-80 vpip then you should be loving this and you should be crushing the games big time if you're playing correctly yourself? There will always be players at every stakes which are bad but they become less and less the higher you go. Trust me when I say, if you're struggling to beat the limits you're at now facing the absolute best players you possibly can be up against then there is a 0% chance you will beat higher games over a decent sample size.

Best piece of advice I can give is, post hands vs these players you're on about in the forum and get feedback on your play but given you admit yourself you're playing scared vs them, you're likely making so many mistakes yourself. Don't post any bad beats though, they are irrelevant.
Ram awesome post we need to sticky this..:D :D
 
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Swickster007

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The never fold opponents are who I love to play against. Once you get a good hand, you basically get to double up...if they truly never fold. Just fold your hands until you have something worth a double and then take advantage.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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the more important question here is can you recognize when you're at a table of non-folders (calling stations) and adjust properly?

you won't ALWAYS be at a table full of calling stations...and when you find yourself at a table with 2 LAGS, 2 maniacs, 2 pros, 1 nit and you....you'll WISH it was full of calling stations....or you'll even settle for just 1 or 2 stations because if you were sitting at that "hypothetical" table and subbed in just 1 o 2 calling stations you'd quickly realize that's where almost all your profit comes from. ALL your easiest decisions too...

so....don't hate the playa...adapt your game! :)

what do we do with calling stations? value bet them to death. don't ever bluff. don't c-bet when your AK misses...but when your AK hits you can bet bigger for extra value....and yeah they're gonna suck out on you sometimes....but believe me it's the gravy train of poker.

short answer: it actually only gets tougher, my friend.
 
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jackflash

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im currently grinding the microstakes ,and i want to know where you play as i will happily play the competition there if they are a bad as you say , just play as correctly as you can and you should do well out of it .
 
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