Do you use M or BB when looking at your stack?

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paulyd

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Most tourney pros i hear always talk about BB such as if BB is 10 or less its shove or fold. But does anyone here think BB is better than M that Harrington uses?


I know M was a new concept that was created but i always felt like BB was more important. Also does anyone here feel that 10bb shove or fold is a bit loose? For me, i think its around 7bb when its shove or fold and 10bb...i could still fold.
 
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only_bridge

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M was popular like 3 years ago, and wildely overused IMO.
IMO both M and BB's are important, but for different reasons.

When it comes to push/fold mode it depends.
10bb's can be deep enough to raise and fold to a re-raise.
A few years back everyone raised like 4bb's and then you would have commited yourself, but nowdays 2bb is more standard, and then you are not automaticly commited.
 
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paulyd

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But do you consider people to look at their stack in terms of BB or M Now? Even espn talks more about BB than M. Look at when they do final table stacks, they mention BB only.
 
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only_bridge

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But do you consider people to look at their stack in terms of BB or M Now? Even espn talks more about BB than M. Look at when they do final table stacks, they mention BB only.

Mostly bb's.
 
IntenseHeat

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I think more people look at BB because it's simpler. If the big blind is 1200 then you multiply by 10 (just add a zero), and you know where you stand. If you have more than 12,000 then you're above 10x and if you have less, then you are below 10x. The point is that it is a simple calculation whether you choose divide your stack or multiply the blinds. To calculate your M value you have to multiply the ante by the number of players at the table, then add the values of the BB and SB to that. Once you have that number, you can divide your stack by it to find the M value. Although it's not terribly complicated, it's still easier to determine how many BB you have by performing one quick calculation. Not to mention, as you near then end of a tourney (when M value becomes most important), players are going to start being eliminated with greater frequency. Which means you will have recalculate you M value every time a player is eliminated or tables are rebalanced. So for the sake of simplicity most players will just calculate BB.

As for shoving or folding with 10x or less. Unlike a lot of players, I'm not going to shove with any Ace or any halfway playable hand once I drop below 10x. I'm still going consider my position, action in front of me, etc. before I act. But when I do find a worthy hand to play, it's going to be for all my chips, maybe even up to 15x depending on the hand and the way the others at the table are playing.
 
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inflnlte

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I mainly look at bbs. M is just another way of looking at your stack compared to the blinds and antes. Knowing M isn't going to tell you something bb's wont tell you other than you should shove with x amount of M compared to x amount of bbs.
 
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paulyd

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Do you guys feel that M is only relevant when the Antes are pretty big compared to the blinds? I use bb but i feel M is more useful if antes are huge.
 
Debi

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BB is simpler - but you do have to remember to factor in the antes once they kick in.
 
snklzona

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I think more people look at BB because it's simpler. If the big blind is 1200 then you multiply by 10 (just add a zero), and you know where you stand. If you have more than 12,000 then you're above 10x and if you have less, then you are below 10x. The point is that it is a simple calculation whether you choose divide your stack or multiply the blinds. To calculate your M value you have to multiply the ante by the number of players at the table, then add the values of the BB and SB to that. Once you have that number, you can divide your stack by it to find the M value. Although it's not terribly complicated, it's still easier to determine how many BB you have by performing one quick calculation. Not to mention, as you near then end of a tourney (when M value becomes most important), players are going to start being eliminated with greater frequency. Which means you will have recalculate you M value every time a player is eliminated or tables are rebalanced. So for the sake of simplicity most players will just calculate BB.

As for shoving or folding with 10x or less. Unlike a lot of players, I'm not going to shove with any Ace or any halfway playable hand once I drop below 10x. I'm still going consider my position, action in front of me, etc. before I act. But when I do find a worthy hand to play, it's going to be for all my chips, maybe even up to 15x depending on the hand and the way the others at the table are playing.


I like the fact you say 10x is not a set in stone deadline for insta shove of a low or medium % hand...I want my chips in there early enough so if I win I get good value but shoving ATC at 10BB doesn't necessarily give me the best shot at staying alive in the tourney...I like using M but like has been said later in tourney when it is really important it becomes a little complicated...
 
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BB is simpler - but you do have to remember to factor in the antes once they kick in.

yea what I do and most people i know is just have different pre and post ante thresholds for shoving, 3bet shoving etc and just switch over once antes kick in.
 
aero87

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10-15 bb is good for shove because of fold equity. If you wait for less, people aren't going to fold because they will be getting better odds. It forces them to have to wake up with a good hand to call you. This way you can steal the blinds and antes if you need to.

Of course your position and other action are factors as well.
 
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