Do you play tourbo S&G's ?

I have been watching these, and can't understand why people play them so much. Every game I watched was an all in, with any face card bad beat battle to the finish line, which is obviously a game that takes skill out of the equation, and turns Holdem into a slot machine.
If there are actually any players here who make a profit playing these, I would love to here your story. Thanks.

edit.. It is turbo not tourbo lol crap.

Yeah, I have been having success with them after playing them again the last 4 or 5 weeks on 888 - the 6-handed superturbos. 500 chip starting stack, blinds begin at 10/20 but move up every 2 or 3 mins or something crazy like that.

For me, they are more like a fun 15 or 20 minute diversion from grinding cash games online or live. Or from playing live tournaments. (Lately, haven't been playing online MTTs anywhere near as much)

Oops! Sorry the below is a bit of brain blurt - but the general strategy that has been working lately for me is:

Standard good tight aggressive play early on, try not to commit too much pre-flop w/out big pairs, be happy to fold garbage continuously - even in middle blind levels, as things progress often raise less than all in (like maybe pot size or 3/4 pot pre-flop) with strong hands or speculative hands that you don't mind a fold to, then confuse your opponents sometimes w/ all-in raises preflop to balance that tendency - again with a balanced range such as both QQ/KK or A4s / Q10s, look for occasional spots to steal/bluff based often on your player or situational read, in other words play your standard strong post-flop game, stay tight-ish even mid to late stages as you keep looking for good spots - eg - when shorter stacks push in what clearly feels like marginal places for them, don't worry too much even if you're not the biggest or second biggest stack in the middle stages as you will watch your opponents knock each-other out as you get closer to the money, open up a little 3-handed, and a lot 2-handed when you are in the money and heads-up. Here clearly is when you will naturally see what looks like a game of face-card all-in battles, but there are still plenty of spots to be selective - eg - K7o, Q6s, A5o - along with small to med pocket pairs - are all potentially strong hands heads up at the end of these turbo SnGs. Again, especially at the end 2 or 3-handed don't stick to an all-in or fold script - mix it up by limping better hands on occasion, going all-in pre, and min-raising or 2.5 x BB raising when heads-up. Keep 'em guessing, appear looser than you are, and let the equity of your holdings keep you winning over at least the medium term if not short term.

If I had to sum that all up, I'd say I consider the actual equity of my holdings against the perceived range of my opponents the most important factor.

Of course, I haven't included all factors, but this general approach including plenty of concentration when playing them I have found to work well in my latest go at these on 888 - at the $2.75, $5 and $10 buy-in levels. I can't speak about the $20 and $40 buy in levels, maybe a much diff strategy is required there.

dudemanstan said:

I have been watching these, and can't understand why people play them so much. Every game I watched was an all in, with any face card bad beat battle to the finish line, which is obviously a game that takes skill out of the equation, and turns Holdem into a slot machine.
If there are actually any players here who make a profit playing these, I would love to here your story. Thanks.

edit.. It is turbo not tourbo lol crap.

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I know you probarly don't know (as clearly you don't ) but I find it frustrating when people just assume something like turbos/hyper turbos when it comes down to shove/fold is lotto/slot machines.

That sort of thinking from you is what makes people win huge profits, by having a big edge against people who literally have no idea how these games work.



Yes to your question though; people have won and do win a lot of money playing SnG's. I used to play SnG's but after so long; I had enough but managed to turn a profit consistently. It all comes down to ICM player towards the later stages of a SNG, not luck (although luck of course pays a part in the short term)

People play turbos cuz they take less time to finish than non-turbos, and therefore they get more games in per hour. Sure, the variance will be higher in turbos, and your ROI will be lower. But more games per hour = more profits and more rakeback.

turbos are very bad for variance and bad beats it often feels like a ruck or a merry go round.
up and down and struggling to make a profit every day.

the bottom line is I will always cash in sit n go's when im playing my A game,
turbo or non turbo
if im in a bad mood or unfocused or switch off
(as I unfortunately tend to do once i get bored and have won a few sit n go's I feel content with my profit)
I start loosening up calling all ins when i know im ahead pre flop, Or start raising to many speculative hands,

then I'l start to take bad hits on the bubble (my favouratee is the river full house bad beat runner runner , this happens most days., also wen pokertars jam out runner runner straights for someone calling an all in with a pair of 4's

this also happens most days...

we a players need to use our edge to accumalate chips early on to take a bad beat and still be able to go to war, with.. 1500 left from 1500 made

cotta777 said:

the bottom line is I will always cash in sit n go's when im playing my A game,

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I'd love that if that was true, but it isn't

Even the very best player in the world doesn't cash every time they play their A game...variance is high in NL hold'em no matter how good you are, you can't beat variance.

ramdeebam said:

I'd love that if that was true, but it isn't

Even the very best player in the world doesn't cash every time they play their A game...variance is high in NL hold'em no matter how good you are, you can't beat variance.

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ok I cant say i have a 100% record of A game perfection obviously. lol its impossible but when I log on fresh and ready to go,

im not trying to boast (because I have alot of bad habits i need to adress)
I dont really even need the cards just find the spots and the chips just seem to come my way and at 10 minute blinds by the time were into push and fold
im usually at worst a double stack advantage of the bubble spot and come the bubble its party time - occasionally it might no be party time if you bump into 3 winning regs, but as long as you got good notes and you can always exploit something,
I like to distrupt play by keeping the short stack in raising before they get a chance, reduces their chance of doubling up and it also scares the other guys of the bubble,
the idea is just to grind him down dont give him a chance to make a push if your first to act
(it works)

but yeah I get bored after a few long games so play turbos inevatably go on tilt before to long bad, bad beats..., thennn i suffer

I can see how this strategy can work cotta777.

If I was to find any exploitable leaks with it, that would just be that once opponents clue on to the fact that you're often playing spots with any two cards, they can rightly call your shoves a lot wider / lighter. As anyone playing Turbo SnGs really should be doing from time to time. But still, can see how you can be successful when you're up against players who aren't totally across how these games should optimally work

If you tightened your range just a bit but played your same general strategy, you'd prob feel less tilt.

Spend HU the Hyper turbos are a lottery, is throwing an all-in and see if there Takes no good unfortunately and the worst is that I I have a lot of bad Takes for these bingos and I lose a lot of money. They should not be

I've enjoyed the turbo 9 and 18man SnGs
with a +ROI to boot

i play turbo DOuble Ups

I don't like Turbo's so I try to avoid them, I prefer long blind structures with deep stacks

S3mper said:

I don't like Turbo's so I try to avoid them, I prefer long blind structures with deep stacks

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Overall preference: likewise. I think for me Turbo SnGs are like the quick burger snack - long blind structure / deep stacked games are the 3 course meal with fine wine

Most turbos to me are just a crap shoot. If I play a turbo it'll be a higher dollar turbo around $30. People are less like to shove all in with 56 just for fun. I like to play real poker. Like S3mper said, long levels and deep stacks are the way to make any real money. Turbos should only be played for fun fast action gambling. Definitely tight aggressive is the way to go IMO.

You mean turbo sit&goes or hyper turbo sit&goes?
If you mean on hyper turbo sit&goes where the players start with less chips and everybody go all-in than, there isn't any skills, everybody who play those sit & goes are players with more money on their accounts and they don't want to wait like on the others sit&goes. Those are kamikaze sit&goes. You need only to have lucky so you can cash on those.

I love hyper turbo sng . Its a bit like bingo , cause its always shove and pray in the beginning Later in the Tournament u can play ur normal gameplay. And its fast, what I like too.

S3mper said:

I don't like Turbo's so I try to avoid them, I prefer long blind structures with deep stacks

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What site for USA players has the best of these? Thanks.

I love hypers. They're a real fun rollercoaster ride and lol-easy to beat.

dudemanstan said:

I have been watching these, and can't understand why people play them so much. Every game I watched was an all in, with any face card bad beat battle to the finish line, which is obviously a game that takes skill out of the equation, and turns Holdem into a slot machine.
If there are actually any players here who make a profit playing these, I would love to here your story. Thanks.

edit.. It is turbo not tourbo lol crap.

Click to expand...

I will say, whenever I have 11 cents and time to spare, I get in a 300/3 minute game at Carbon. I really like them. While it looks like lotto, it really is not. Yes, I do shove more in those games, but you just cannot wait around at 3 minute intervals forever, but you do not need to panic either! I know it still seems like lotto, but there is actually some science to it.

Now, as for the $100.00 300/3 (or are they 1500/3?), not in this lifetime. If I have a dollar to spare, i'm in the 11 cent, so I would need 1k for those!

As for strategy, you really got to think about position and hand strength. A-10 shove on the button against a limper often finds you up against A-rag. Not bad odds. That saying about K-rag being a good hand against one random hand also comes into play a lot. SSC's are about worthless! I also see a lot of guys who love any two suited cards just get killed in these. Even if they flop a pair, by the river any over card will often do them in. All in on a possible flush is just silly. Usually they shove stuff like 8-2 if suited and run against a guy with as little as J-10 in the same suit, and it's almost over.

Except for all the all ins, it reminds me a lot of final table heads up play, oddly enough. After you get one good double up, you can punish the limpers and shorter stacks. Once it gets down to the HU (and the only 2 payouts) many will just play stupid, happy enough to be making double the buy in. That makes it good for you!

This last one I played only went 36 hands and it was at 60/120 blinds by then. I did not simply "lotto" it. I did go 8 (all ins) and 4 (check or complete SB) for only 12 hands played. That's 33% of hands played and I think appropriate for the blind structure. Im no where near that in regular MTT games or SNG's. The reason I do not simply raise more preflop is that many often shove to a raise. Limping in just sees you in the same situation or worse. You cannot afford to fold anything you start until you are table chip leader or at least 2nd.

Once you get used to this and learn what hands stand the best chance and when, it will become less like a slot machine and more like an ATM for you. Plus, it makes you a more well rounded player, IMO.

dudemanstan said:

What site for USA players has the best of these? Thanks.

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Players only has a lot of Deep stacks with 1 Rebuy (some non rebuys) with probably around 15 min blinds.

I'm not sure if Carbon has them too but they run off the same Network so I would think they would

i like to play turbos because i dont like to stack up early and then waiting for everyone else to bust out, them playing super tight since they have forever to sit and wait for a hand, and it taking an hour while i'm losing chips in the mean time through blinds.

in a turbo, most people tend to play a little looser since they are trying to beat the blinds. i find them to be easier and less of a grind then a standard sng.

Michael Paler said:

I will say, whenever I have 11 cents and time to spare, I get in a 300/3 minute game at Carbon. I really like them. While it looks like lotto, it really is not. Yes, I do shove more in those games, but you just cannot wait around at 3 minute intervals forever, but you do not need to panic either! I know it still seems like lotto, but there is actually some science to it.

Now, as for the $100.00 300/3 (or are they 1500/3?), not in this lifetime. If I have a dollar to spare, i'm in the 11 cent, so I would need 1k for those!

As for strategy, you really got to think about position and hand strength. A-10 shove on the button against a limper often finds you up against A-rag. Not bad odds. That saying about K-rag being a good hand against one random hand also comes into play a lot. SSC's are about worthless! I also see a lot of guys who love any two suited cards just get killed in these. Even if they flop a pair, by the river any over card will often do them in. All in on a possible flush is just silly. Usually they shove stuff like 8-2 if suited and run against a guy with as little as J-10 in the same suit, and it's almost over.

Except for all the all ins, it reminds me a lot of final table heads up play, oddly enough. After you get one good double up, you can punish the limpers and shorter stacks. Once it gets down to the HU (and the only 2 payouts) many will just play stupid, happy enough to be making double the buy in. That makes it good for you!

This last one I played only went 36 hands and it was at 60/120 blinds by then. I did not simply "lotto" it. I did go 8 (all ins) and 4 (check or complete SB) for only 12 hands played. That's 33% of hands played and I think appropriate for the blind structure. Im no where near that in regular MTT games or SNG's. The reason I do not simply raise more preflop is that many often shove to a raise. Limping in just sees you in the same situation or worse. You cannot afford to fold anything you start until you are table chip leader or at least 2nd.

Once you get used to this and learn what hands stand the best chance and when, it will become less like a slot machine and more like an ATM for you. Plus, it makes you a more well rounded player, IMO.

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Agree with much of this Michael Paler in terms of the approach to winning the 6-max, single table hyper turbos on 888.

Especially what you say about the resemblance to, let's say, HU to even 4 or 5 handed on a MTT final table. Playing these hyper sngs really helped me achieve better final table results in live pub tournaments - I have found them to be great late tournament practice!

Eh i dabbled in Carbons <$1 sng super turbos and despite what everyone says I just dont see any consistent profit from it. Althought im up, it was a rough ride and its just barely (maybe 1.10 net?). The problem is only top 2 pay and 2nd (at least on carbon) only pays 21c compared with 11c buyin....not even 2to1 payout. and certainly its much harder to get 2nd at least half the time... Just not enough profit margin i dont think at least from the micro stakes.

I only play tubo's if i'm short on time,, otherwise I stick to normal blind levels.

steveiam said:

I only play tubo's if i'm short on time,, otherwise I stick to normal blind levels.

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pfft, if you like regular structures better than turbo just play cash.

Honestly I'm increasingly thinking it's probably not worth anyone's time to play regular-speed tournaments. Winning ANY MTT type requires your ship/fold game to be solid, so if you're good at late-stage play in regular MTTs you're gonna be good at playing turbos, and you're gonna get a shit ton more volume. And of you're NO good at playing the late stages you're wasting your time playing tournaments in general and should be playing a slower structure that actually allows for speculation. That is to say; cash.