Do you play AJs early position early in a big MTT?

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peskey123

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I'm never sure whether i should be playing AJs early in a big non turbo MTT in early position...
I tend to only play premiums and all pocket pairs early on to try and get a double up with a big hand only. If i raise early position with AJs i may win the blinds (wooo) i could get shoved (then fold) or i could get involved in an awkward pot where i get a little bit of the flop.... so i dont really see the point in playing it.....

Thoughts?
 
PattyR

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i play tournies on occasion...but i dont play AJ from EP in cash games or tournies

EDIT: just saw u asked about AJ sooooooted....i raise but fold to re reaise
 
pdias666

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it depends on position of course, but in large tournments with low bin i avoid to play first 4/5 hands, i like to 'take a look arroud' to see players. But probably you will change table very fast in first level.
 
spunka

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As said it depends on position, and when that is said you can play any hand, as long as you're able to fold, and read the flop well.

The question is how much will you back up you're hand with when you enter the pot, if you make it 3* big blinds in early position you have a problem if you get reraised... why position is importent and the key.

if you have an early position limper you can call or even raise a weak player many even fold the limp. And you can also limp along and see what happends.

if you have the button you can and should raise if you're the first in the pot, most of the time you will take it down, and if not you have position in the hand, which give you an advantage.
 
Dunninger

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this is a position play.. AJs is a stronger starting hand than any pair under Jacks.

You've got 3 options to shoot for. a flush, straight, high pairs... or a combination thereof..

If you miss all 3 after the flop.. and your opponent is betting into what appears to be strength.. you've got to consider going bye bye.. and live to fight another day..
 
The PoolBoy

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depends...on wat u mean Big MTT...buy in or # of players? Also how early first hand, level or hour? would take these variables into consideration before giving a more finite answer.
 
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I play it, I don't see how anyone can't play it even in early postion. I mean, you have to play something and what else can you play in EP in a tournament? Aces/Kings/Ace,King only by the sounds of it! I'm always raising A,Js just like A,Qs and will fold to a raise, if it's a big raise.
 
dmorris68

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AJs is a stronger starting hand than any pair under Jacks.
Wat?

According to PokerStove, at best you're flipping against 22. Against 44 you're a 49/51 dog. Against TT, a 46/54 dog. Not a huge equity difference, but certainly not "stronger than any pair under JJ." AJs isn't really stronger than ANY pocket pair.

I play it, I don't see how anyone can't play it even in early postion. I mean, you have to play something and what else can you play in EP in a tournament? Aces/Kings/Ace,King only by the sounds of it! I'm always raising A,Js just like A,Qs and will fold to a raise, if it's a big raise.
Something tells me you have a leak to plug. Not saying to never play AJs from EP, but your rationale is a bit, well, LOL.

As in all things poker, it's situational, but if you can never consider open-folding AJ from EP, then you're probably leaking money.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Wat?
Something tells me you have a leak to plug. Not saying to never play AJs from EP, but your rationale is a bit, well, LOL.

As in all things poker, it's situational, but if you can never consider open-folding AJ from EP, then you're probably leaking money.

Ok, well whats funny about it? Early in a tournament you're playing tighter, that's agreed. You will find you are often called anyway, or re-raised. Point I was making, if I'm faced with a significant re-raise I'll drop the A,Js I never said I'm not folding A,J.

Indeed it's situational, if I'm re-raised by someone constantly raising/calling every hand then I'm always calling their re-raise or re-raising again. If I'm repopped by someone who hasn't been playing much and have a tight image I'm putting it down almost all the time. That's like saying you're folding A,K if re-popped, end of the day you still have Ace high in both situations.
 
Dunninger

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Wat?

According to PokerStove, at best you're flipping against 22. Against 44 you're a 49/51 dog. Against TT, a 46/54 dog. Not a huge equity difference, but certainly not "stronger than any pair under JJ." AJs isn't really stronger than ANY pocket pair.


Dmorris-
This is where I got my numbers from:

According to Wizard of odds.. the "power rating" of the AJ suited is higher than any pocket pair up including Tens for a 10 person table.
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem
at a 6 person table AJs is likely to win 29.28% of the time and the odds then just slightly favor a pair of 10's but still is expected to beat 99's or below over the long run.
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem/6players.html

Just food for thought.
 
dmorris68

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Dmorris-
This is where I got my numbers from:

According to Wizard of odds.. the "power rating" of the AJ suited is higher than any pocket pair up including Tens for a 10 person table.
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem
at a 6 person table AJs is likely to win 29.28% of the time and the odds then just slightly favor a pair of 10's but still is expected to beat 99's or below over the long run.
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem/6players.html

Just food for thought.
While it's true that 6-max games are going to be a bit looser and more players likely to see a flop, you're still not generally playing a lot of multi-way raised pots -- certainly not 6-handed pots. In a HU scenario, which the vast majority of raised pots wind up being, the hand equities are as I quoted above (e.g. AJs is 48% against a 22-TT range). 3-way, against two opponents on the same 22-TT underpair range, AJs becomes a favorite at 40% to their 30% each. QJs is actually a stronger hand, with a hair above 50% equity HU against 22-TT, and 42% 3-way.

Sites like those I think are a bit disingenuous because in their attempt to mathematically plot every possible scenario they overwhelm players who don't yet grasp the practical math behind poker, and don't understand how true equities are calculated, how fold equity can completely change an equity decision, etc.

Code:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

369,857,664  games     1.848 secs   200,139,428  games/sec

Board: 
Dead:  

            equity       win        tie             pots won         pots tied    
Hand 0:     48.339%      48.11%     00.23%          177931752        852660.00   { AJs }
Hand 1:     51.661%      51.43%     00.23%          190220592        852660.00   { TT-22 }
 
Theblueduce

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Depends on the players at the table. If I find most of them tight after me, then yes, i may take a shot now and then at them. If they are aggressive players, not so much.
 
TheKAAHK

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For the most part: never.

I see no reason to get involved early in the tourney and in early position with an easily dominated drawing hand like AJ. Not enough information on my opponents yet and alot of players overplaying their hands hoping to double-up fast or bust.

I feel this hand is best played a few (say lvl 4+) levels in, and only if you have the right conditions to warrant it. Conditions such as a larger than average stack, passive/tight players in the CO button and blinds and a solid image for yourself. Otherwise I feel it is a huge leak to be playing AJ early/early in a large field MTT.

On the flip side, if you are already desperately short very ealry on, AJ is good for the "pay and pray" approach in ep
 
Dunninger

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I see no reason to get involved early in the tourney


That's a key component.. EARLY..
I missed that the first go round..

There are a lot of hands I might fold early in a tourney that are winners later.. I agree with THEKAAHK.. you need to learn your opponents first and foremost..

I'd play the hand.. but get aggressive ? Probably Not preflop..
 
bullishwwd

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All-in ; all-out

Seriously, I have at times played it, but I usually regret when I don't hit the flop because where do you go then?

You are often beaten when you do hit the flop and almost for certain beaten when you don't hit the flop, especially if playing against good players.

Wally
 
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I play a TAG style and from EP i dont even thing twice.....muck!
 
Daniel72

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I fold UTG AJs or offsuit, even AQo - but it depends on the playing style i think...
 
JMTalbert

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In the past and even some now, I play. Then the flop would come with an Ace and I get all excited and bet or maybe check and then call their bet or even get crazy and reraiase. Then we would end up all in and the villian flips over AK or AQ or even AA. The turn and river offer no help and then I remember how important position is and how I wish I had more information on my opponent before I had assumed they were bluffing or playing a weak Ace.

It is a good hand, situationally. I think the key factors that are making the majority of posters say to muck and not think twice are: lack of position & the early stage of the tournament. Both equate to not knowing enough about your opponents in general and in the specific hand as it plays out.

I am working to get better at remembering that position is golden. Is he bluffing or does he have it? If he has position, you will often have to pay, and sometimes pay dearly, to find out.
 
dmorris68

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It's absolutely situational, I don't ever consider it a snap-fold, my argument above addressing it's equity against small pp's notwithstanding. If I'm in position and stacks are deep against the blinds I'll often open with it and then shutdown to much resistance unless I flop 2p or better. Facing a raise, especially with a caller, and certainly with a 3bet, then I'm usually ditching it.

However for beginners and players who aren't comfortable with post-flop play, it's probably wise to avoid the difficult decisions it can bring when stacks are deep, especially OOP.
 
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i will often raise with AJ
not sure why
but in early position and u hit then u can double up from that
if not s%%% happens start again :)
 
fletchdad

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I didnt read all the answers, so it possibly been mentioned already. If so, sorry for the repeat.

In a regular speed tourney, as stated in some posts, it is situational. A lot will depend on if you have any read on your table, blind level and stack size. If you are deep stacked, you can do pretty much anything you want. In this case your table dynamics will dictate your best route. A call - only in early blind levels - or a raise can be in order, but it will depend on so many factors. Stack sizes are very important here, your table image, your opponents tendencies and so on. Just saying EP AJs is a raise or a fold is not possible without considering all the variables involved. If you have no info on your table and your stack is not big, I would consider folding.
 
natsgrampy

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If I were first into the pot, I am raising this hand. I would like no better than to take it down without seeing a flop. Any resistance and I drop it. Just because I know what I have , doesn't mean my opponent does.

That being said, I am learning here, which is what I love about this forum, that, I should probably be folding this hand. I am going to check my HH and see the results for this hand.

Thanks for perhaps plugging a leak in my game.
 
Colbefc

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I play a lot of MTT's and
AJ in early position goes in the muck every time
early on in MTT
In late position you can raise but if you raise
in early position with AJ you are asking for
trouble
 
Shufflin

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I agree with most -- fold.
You are probably in more trouble here when you do in fact pair the flop. So you bet out, and you get called or raised -- now you are playing a big pot out of position, and are likely beaten (would he really have called your raises with AT or KJ? Maybe, but probably not worth your tournament to find out...)
 
DeadlyV18

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i will often raise with AJ
not sure why
but in early position and u hit then u can double up from that
if not s%%% happens start again :)

Not sure how far you'll go with this sort of thinking.

I'm folding AJ from EP in the early stages of a SnG/MTT and in cash games. Standard raise from any other position.

However I'd shove AJ if I have around 10BBs from any position in a SnG/MTT.
 
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