Do you guys feel its better to open raise in late mtt or push/fold

This is my dilemma sometimes I question whether open raising the same amount is better to disguise my strength but if the player to my left is pushing alot this can be really bad for my image if its noted I fold when open raise.

the problem witg bringing it in with a big raise is it looks strong and if you then variate back to a standard open it just means more information we are giving villain.

Same with pushing and open raising your giving away indications as to what your all ins represent and what your standard open means...

so like im interested to know what you all feel the best approach is to maybe a final table small mtt .
Pushing every playable hand is obviously an option instead of variating and sometimes I will mix it up different bet sizes and just try to be deceptive throughout the final table..

generally is there really a consistently successful strategy you guys apply for. The late game

For me it's based on effective stack sizes. 14BB or less and I'm shoving. More than that I'm raising but usually something like 2.5BB.

cotta777 said:

This is my dilemma sometimes I question whether open raising the same amount is better to disguise my strength but if the player to my left is pushing alot this can be really bad for my image if its noted I fold when open raise.

the problem witg bringing it in with a big raise is it looks strong and if you then variate back to a standard open it just means more information we are giving villain.

Same with pushing and open raising your giving away indications as to what your all ins represent and what your standard open means...

so like im interested to know what you all feel the best approach is to maybe a final table small mtt .
Pushing every playable hand is obviously an option instead of variating and sometimes I will mix it up different bet sizes and just try to be deceptive throughout the final table..

generally is there really a consistently successful strategy you guys apply for. The late game

Click to expand...

Honestly I dont know, my guess would be that shoving is only going to be something you do preflop with a short stack. But when you're not able to fold to a shove, I guess whats the point? Say I have 20 BB, and I raise to 3.5x on the button. A guy shoves with an equal stack, I can fold. But say I have 14.5 BB and raise 3.5x, and he shoves, im down to 11, so why not just shove pre?

If the stack is less than 10BB,it is no useful to raise .Just all in or fold. If the stack is more than 20BB,sometimes I raise 3BB.

Mostly at late mtt, the play is somewhat shootout-play is either shove or fold.

Lets take an exception where the stack is still high compared to blinds. If you have still decent stack, then you can just standard raise to something. Well if you are short stack, then your play is either shove or fold.

depends, if you are the bigstack of the table, then open raise a lot of hands, never push, but if not, you have a lot of different scenarios dependind in your stack, your position, players remaining at your left and players already spoke at your right, and then your hole cards,

if your stack is less than 15-20 BB just push or fold, don´t have spare to play open raise, but if your stack is over 100 BB you can put pressure on other players, biggers are not going to risk their stacks and shorters are not going to risk their lives, so if they call they get in trouble theirselves but if they raise and your hand is not a monster then fold

As in all things poker, it depends. I see that a lot of the previous answers begin with it depends, in this case, on stack sizes. I will usually start open shoving with anything in my range. Of course my range is tighter than a lot of players, and is actually such that I am comfortable raising with pretty much any hand in my range. Of course we should always be taking position and table dynamics into account. I might go all-in over a pre-flop raise for 15x - 20x with a strong hand. Obviously, shipping your stack makes a strong statement about the strength of your hand, and will make a stronger impression on your opponents than a standard raise, unless you are constantly and repeatedly doing so. Then it becomes somewhat suspicious and may actually cause players to start calling you lighter than they normally would.

In small MTTs there may not be that many places paid. So being at the final table may not necessarily mean that you are already in the money. In which case you may not want to ship your stack with more than 10x. This way you leave yourself the opportunity to get away from a bad flop with enough chips to still have a somewhat meaningful stack, as well as the chance to double back up.

As for dealing with that player to your left that keeps pushing, I recommend, as always, that you keep it tight. Tight means discriminating and keeping to the middle to top part of my range, not waiting big slick or huge pairs, while we get blinded off. I usually make a mental note of players that are constantly and repeatedly shoving their stack. They are actually providing an excellent opportunity for you to gain some chips. Common sense tells us that these guys aren't constantly getting premium hands. In the case of a small MTT where being at the final table may mean that you're playing on or near the bubble, these guys will often exploit players hoping to fold their way into the money. This means if we play the top half of our range against them, we will frequently be getting our chips in good. That doesn't mean that our hand will hold up. But your other choice is to sit back and let them continue to run the table over while you wait for those Aces that may never come. Trust me, once you double through them, they'll settle down some.

It definitely depends on the stack sizes. If you're chip leader, a little open raise can go a long way of de-weeding the weaker hands. But if you're small stack, it's more likely that someone else is going to call your raises knowing that your all-in is covered.

If stack less 10bb only shove, also i can shove in EP 10-14bb range hands AQ+ 88+..

cotta777 said:

This is my dilemma sometimes I question whether open raising the same amount is better to disguise my strength but if the player to my left is pushing alot this can be really bad for my image if its noted I fold when open raise.

the problem witg bringing it in with a big raise is it looks strong and if you then variate back to a standard open it just means more information we are giving villain.

Same with pushing and open raising your giving away indications as to what your all ins represent and what your standard open means...

Click to expand...

Image is not about how you think. It's about how your opponent thinks. So for example, you think a particular play gives away that you're weak or strong. But it really only matters what each opponent thinks, so you should be aiming to figure that out in order to adapt your play to your advantage.

I guess the moral of the story is stack size and stack index depends as to how to play the late game.
Arjonius your very right
I should be taking into consideration the level of my surroundings and not just assuming I should avoid something

If you are playing just shove/fold it only takes one hand to get you out of the tournament. That being said, if you have 10bb its just a matter of time for you to get knocked out, but doubling up gives you a real chance. The point in shoving a shortstack pre-flop is because you dont have post-flop play. If you raise him and he call you, on the flop you have to be all in whether you hit something or you didnt, because if you fold you wouldnt be able to play at all after that. But shoving may get you some blinds stolen and doubling up gives you a real chance.

this is so situational lets talk about when you want to be open pushing and when you want to be stealing:

* Open push with hands that are un-exploitable hand stack combos almost always only deviating when you have good reasons to do so

* the earlier position you are, the less you want to steal from small stacks ( more so in micro stakes because they could flat you IP and it could get very sticky in terms of the pot stack ratio)

* steal in SB and BT when you know people are really tight

* Push when you have a large stack advantage and the blinds are short, lets say as an example we are the BT vs 9BB effective SB and BB

* steal a little more on the bubble

Don't forget their is no one correct answer and it is situational

One other thing: make sure you work out what your min call a shove range is ahead of time, bc you can get exploited