Do you Deal in S&Gs?

Question for all that play S&G´s.

When you are down to top2, do you DEAL or not?

In $2´s i usually not, 1st is $9 and 2nd is $5.40, so difference is just $3.60 and never actually think about this.

Today in a $5/9man game, we get to HU, i have around 5000 chips vs 7500 of the other player and was my last game of the session.

pays are 1st-$22.50/2nd-$13.50 so difference is $9, he offer me $17 for 2nd ($19 for first) and acepted.

What you guys think about deals in S&g´s?, is better to secure or is not worth in long term?, depends if you are down in chips, or if feel can outplay the other guy, or what you consider?, or is not good for S&G´s?

Deal or not Deal.

no deal

deal if: you have never played heads up
your opp is very skillfull(not the case if he offered the deal)
if you each have an M of say 2, cause blinds are like 1k/2k300ante
if you have an M of 3, hes like M of 10+ and offers even split
you have lost every heads up match you've played

OTHERWISE: use your head either to beat him, or swing the best deal you can strike(usually split even even tho ure out chipped, or you get way more cause of your little chip advantage)

I never ask for them but if the other player wants to deal and the terms seem reasonable (usually the straight ICM number) I'll often accept and then just move on to the next game.

Of course if I think the villain is a drooler and I've got a big skill advantage or something I'll play out.

Yea - I will always offer/accept a deal from a player who is really good. Also if the hu is taking a long time and we are going back and forth and hanging even I will do a deal.

If you are multi-tabling it is often beneficial to take the deal when you have other tables you can be focusing on - like tables that are down to 4-5 players and you need to ensure you cash.

But yea - if the other player is really bad then I will most likely play it out unless I desperately need to be focusing on other tables.

I don't like to, but I've been thinking about doing it more often. Especially when, like Dakota said, you have a lot of other tables going. It's just not worth it to spend your time messing with that one table.

I will often take a fair deal because even if your better than your opponent you might lose to a lucky hand and end up with less than if you had dealt

KINGSIN said:

(usually split even even tho ure out chipped, or you get way more cause of your little chip advantage)

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Why do you figure you'd 'get way more' with a little chip advantage? In SNG's HU highblinds, a small chip advantage means sfa (sweet ___ all). Even if villain has a 2to1 chip advantage, one hand can swing it to be the opposite.

My opinion on OP's question -> if the blinds are real high and villain is a solid sng player, I'd consider taking the deal (if villain is a solid reg. they likely won't offer... unless they know you are also a solid reg. and with blinds being so high... it's anyone's game).

I'm more likely to consider a deal in a 27 or 45 when blinds are huge HU (again, if villain is a solid reg. & you have no clear advantage).

OzExorcist said:

terms seem reasonable (usually the straight ICM number) .

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ICM & chip chop = same once we're HU

In $5+ SNG, I will offer/accept an even split heads up, unless my chip stack is immense. Why? Because an even split on a $5.50 SNG gives both $18, substantially more than 2nd place. And usually, by this point, the blinds are huge. The short stack, if he's not painfully short, is 2 big hands away from winning.

With nearly a $10 gap between 1st and 2nd, it makes sense to me to split. When the blinds are so large in relation to stack sizes, it's anybody's game. Luck becomes a huge factor. Splitting seems smartest.

If the other guy doesn't want to, I'm OK with that. My HU game is decent. I figure I have a slight edge.

I never try to make a deal, but I will accept a deal if it means ending the game quicker. The standard deal at this point is usually 60/40 in favor of the CL, and that usually means (if I am not the CL) that I would make more by accepting than not accepting and taking second. Though I will never accept a deal against a player who I am beating the hell out of.

If I catch that they want a deal I'll usually do it. I'll often have a bunch of other tables going so my HU game won't be as shape as it could be had I less tables. Another time I'll offer the deal is if the villain D/Cs and come back I will sometimes offer a 50/50 chop.

Lets say if it was an MTT with over 200 ppl and ur dwn to the final 9, wld u do a multi deal as well?

TheKAAHK said:

I never try to make a deal, but I will accept a deal if it means ending the game quicker. The standard deal at this point is usually 60/40 in favor of the CL, and that usually means (if I am not the CL) that I would make more by accepting than not accepting and taking second. Though I will never accept a deal against a player who I am beating the hell out of.

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60/40?? Umm.. that's a shitty deal imo. I've never seen it where the chop HU in a SNG would be as drastic as 60/40 (if it were than for sure the CL would undoubtedly play it out because they'd have a WAYYYYY bigger stack to have the deal be that swayed).

Also, if it's not significantly more than what you'd be getting for 2nd (and you're the shortstack) then it's really not worth it (imo).. because even if you're supershort and are outchipped 3to1 you still have a GREAT chance of taking it down (hence why the chop is usually much closer than 60/40)

It is better to not deal, because it is better to get some heads up experience than to to get a few more dollars.

engman said:

It is better to not deal, because it is better to get some heads up experience than to to get a few more dollars.

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Quite often the blinds are going to be so big that there's not going to be much of an eperience.... "Oh.... I won".. "Damn.... I lost". It'll often be over in one hand... maybe 2... 3. Sometimes you'll get a bit more play obv. but then you're also obv. alot less likely to be going for a deal.

I've never dealt. I suppose I'd deal if the cut was right, not for small SnG's though. Kinda makes it worthless even entering. Bigger fields then yeah I'd be open to it.

I'm actually curious how does a deal work? How is the game actually ended? Do you call in a moderator or something who then sorts out the deal or do you just do a "run" and whoever wins, wins. Then the other player transfers you the agreed amount? I dunno if i could trust doing that!

ramdeebam said:

I've never dealt. I suppose I'd deal if the cut was right, not for small SnG's though. Kinda makes it worthless even entering. Bigger fields then yeah I'd be open to it.

I'm actually curious how does a deal work? How is the game actually ended? Do you call in a moderator or something who then sorts out the deal or do you just do a "run" and whoever wins, wins. Then the other player transfers you the agreed amount? I dunno if i could trust doing that!

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It is not worthless to enter a 9 man sng and end up with a split of 1st and 2nd place money. I think everybody I know who plays them would be happy to know that is what they would end up with.

I never deal in a sng at PS because it is a pain in the butt there. You have to email support while you continue to play and wait for them to show up at the table - definitely not worth it there.

But at Full Tilt it is very easy and fast. There is a make a deal button and once all players have clicked to discuss a deal the play will stop at the end of the current hand. A screen will pop up where a deal can be chosen and once both players approve it then it is done and the game is over.

Poker Orifice said:

Why do you figure you'd 'get way more' with a little chip advantage? In SNG's HU highblinds, a small chip advantage means sfa (sweet ___ all). Even if villain has a 2to1 chip advantage, one hand can swing it to be the opposite.

My opinion on OP's question -> if the blinds are real high and villain is a solid sng player, I'd consider taking the deal (if villain is a solid reg. they likely won't offer... unless they know you are also a solid reg. and with blinds being so high... it's anyone's game).

I'm more likely to consider a deal in a 27 or 45 when blinds are huge HU (again, if villain is a solid reg. & you have no clear advantage).

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because not all opp think like you- and if i have a chip advantage, no matter how small, i always ask for more money, i dont care if in one hand, it could be reverse, im greedy and want the most i can get, ive made 5 ways chop in live tour, where i get more than every one else, without being chip leader, being the hold out on a split, can yeild you more money. And if your opp wants to split than you can be the hold out, even heads up, and even if your chip leads not much.

Everyone always wanted me to deal back when I was playing SnG's. I think I did it once. That was cause I was tired, and my opponent told me he was in a hurry.

Some SnG players are really sneaky heads up, but most of them, well from my experience, they suck. No wonder they always wanted to deal.

Depends on how big was the sng and how big your current br is and if the player who is agains't you is better player than you, and you think that you're going to lose, I would do deal here.

only_bridge said:

Everyone always wanted me to deal back when I was playing SnG's. I think I did it once. That was cause I was tired, and my opponent told me he was in a hurry.

Some SnG players are really sneaky heads up, but most of them, well from my experience, they suck. No wonder they always wanted to deal.

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I love this post!! This guy is frigg'n SUPERMAN.. obv. I mean.. I don't think Phil Ivey has had "EVERYONE" "ALWAYS" ask for a deal.

All sng players must seem like they really suck (noticed in previous post you've said that the sng players in the $10's are all real bad).. this is kinda weird imo... cuz how come there's alot who are winning players? (and not just in the $10 sng's). Maybe they got lucky.. or more likely ... 'the other guy got tired', lolzzz

Poker Orifice said:

I love this post!! This guy is frigg'n SUPERMAN.. obv. I mean.. I don't think Phil Ivey has had "EVERYONE" "ALWAYS" ask for a deal.

All sng players must seem like they really suck (noticed in previous post you've said that the sng players in the $10's are all real bad).. this is kinda weird imo... cuz how come there's alot who are winning players? (and not just in the $10 sng's). Maybe they got lucky.. or more likely ... 'the other guy got tired', lolzzz

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I think the winning players in 10$ sng's are playing turbos or something.
I admit that there were some regulars who were basicly break even, and I guess plus with rakeback, but other than that, no.

I know there are a lot of winning SnG players, and some really tough ones, I just never ran in to them.

only_bridge said:

I think the winning players in 10$ sng's are playing turbos or something.
I admit that there were some regulars who were basicly break even, and I guess plus with rakeback, but other than that, no.

I know there are a lot of winning SnG players, and some really tough ones, I just never ran in to them.

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really? What time are you playing at? and on what day?
On a weekday between 11:00(est) & 18:00(est) there's usually 4 to 5 decent players in the 'reg' speed SNG/STT (at least 4-5 with positive ROI, sometimes more). I actually have screenshots that I've posted for some folks, showing them the difference one can expect as they move up in buyin levels... also the differences they'll find depending upon what time of the day & what day of the week they're playing (weekends are obv. when tables have the most weak players on them, and weakest time of day is ~19:00-23:00)... after 23:00 the tables have higher number of good players vs. weak ones.

Did "everyone" really ask you for a deal? cuz that is frigg'n awesome!!!!!

only_bridge said:

I think the winning players in 10$ sng's are playing turbos or something.
I admit that there were some regulars who were basicly break even, and I guess plus with rakeback, but other than that, no.

I know there are a lot of winning SnG players, and some really tough ones, I just never ran in to them.

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OK, I know how good a player you are, and how fearless.

Maybe it's different in NLHE SNGs, where you seldom run into the same folks at lower levels.

I mostly play less popular games, with regulars at each. It's rare to sit down at a SNG where I don't have some familiarity with at least a couple of players. The regulars are often ITM and consistently play pretty well. HU with another reg -- it's anybody's game, with the luck factor. HU lasts until the blinds are just too huge (shove and pray time), or until we both have great hands and both expect to win. It makes little sense to wait for that moment.

Now if I have little respect for the other guy (it's rare and usually has something to do with them playing badly and being obnoxious about a lucky streak ), I won't deal. But it's moot-- those players don't deal.