Disguising Your Hand as A Bluff

I actually saw something like this in bluff magazine not too long ago. I don't know if the hand is the same but its really similar. In this case were lucky and the other player actually had a weak ace. In most cases we should get them to call us down with middle or low pair.

The whole point of taking a line like this is to make an opponent think you are bluffing or trying to steal. If you look at the hand with let's say the Hero holding KQ, it looks exactly how many beginner players may go about making a bluff in position when they don't hit.

If they did have KQ, the 1500 bet on the flop could easily be a positional C-bet.

The check on the turn could show weakness.

And the river bet is the last resort, please don't call steal. You see now how it looks like a common bluff used by many or even you at one point?

Now again we see the opponent had a weak ace, but many times with this line you can have many hands weaker than A 10 call you down....try it some time




Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 300/600 Blinds 75 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 (t16110)
Hero (CO) (t48767)
Button (t11995)
SB (t12020)
BB (t14851)
UTG (t13664)
UTG+1 (t6373)
MP1 (t22628)
MP2 (t20706)

Hero's M: 30.96

Preflop: Hero is CO with A , 10
5 folds, Hero bets t1800, 2 folds, BB calls t1200

Flop: (t4575) J , A , 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t1500, BB calls t1500

Turn: (t7575) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (t7575) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t3499, BB calls t3499

Total pot: t14573

Results:
BB had A , 6 (one pair, Aces).
Hero had A , 10 (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won t14573

Call steal?

lol sorry i meant someone thinking in their head...Please don't call! type of steal

I think I like it more if you have a stronger hand. The Qd on the river completes some straight, flush and 2 pair hands, and you gave that card for free.

yea that is usually a good way to get sucked out in this situation. It may work if u flop the Nutz but rarely no one is calling u down unless they hit as well.

darkassassin89 said:

yea that is usually a good way to get sucked out in this situation. It may work if u flop the Nutz but rarely no one is calling u down unless they hit as well.

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wat? Im trying to say we want someone that hit something to call us down...just a weaker something. I play a lot of these tournaments and I understand the risk of being sucked out on, but more than likely in this situation im up against someone defending there blinds, not AK or some premium hand. In most cases a good hand will reraise PF..

ManicLombax said:

I think I like it more if you have a stronger hand. The Qd on the river completes some straight, flush and 2 pair hands, and you gave that card for free.

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and that's a whole different line to take, I am talking about this one. Im not saying I use this line every time in this situation. Just saying its a good tool in ur arsenal

KingCurtis said:

and that's a whole different line to take, I am talking about this one. Im not saying I use this line every time in this situation. Just saying its a good tool in ur arsenal

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Yeah, not arguing that you should never do this or even that it was incorrect here necessarily. Could be that the extra value you get on the river compensates for the times you get sucked out on.

Just saying me personally I feel better when the guy turns up QJ, KT or Jd9d on the river I feel better if I was giving him incorrect odds on every street to draw out on me.

By the way I'm still playing micro tournaments here, don't listen to me. My game gets better by discussing these things though so I like to argue. Interesting thread I think.

What kinds of boards would you play this way KingCurtis? I'm guessing a super-wet flop would not be a good candidate. I don't like the second diamond on the turn here, but I guess you don't see a turn with four suits all that often.

What about this?

Along the line of what KC said, in reguards to disguising your hands as a bluff, you can shove with the better hand on the river.

Many players with mid-pair actually call this move thinking that your trying to protect your missed straight/flush.

Of course this move requires a bit of insight on your part. Your opponent needs to be a bit more aggressive, a tight/better player will fold dispite the fact that they may be getting the feeling you are bluffing. You need to place your opponent on an actual hand, if he has completely missed this move will make him fold and you have no chance of him bluffing at it. It benefits you greatly if you've noticed your opponent has been missing (folding after seeing the flop/turn) these loses will motivate him to call despite the massive odds against it, he wants to make his money back.

...That's what I think...

That happens all the time in Rush tournaments Wannabe. I'll see some big stack shove all in on the river looking like he wants to buy the pot I'll call and he'll show the nuts laughing all the way to the bank.

ManicLombax said:

By the way I'm still playing micro tournaments here, don't listen to me. My game gets better by discussing these things though so I like to argue. Interesting thread I think.

What kinds of boards would you play this way KingCurtis? I'm guessing a super-wet flop would not be a good candidate. I don't like the second diamond on the turn here, but I guess you don't see a turn with four suits all that often.

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Yeah I mean the diamond I didn't mind. It's better than a straight card coming, that could actually make a hand. The river I didn't like but since he checked I went for the value, since many who have made a good hand would usually bet for value as well instead of checking.

I don't understand what you mean

Imo this is a pretty hard and tricky thing to do yet i saw something like this happen in a recent tourney on FT.
Was very fun to watch. Guy was on the button all behind folded , it was final table so you know how it is when you get there , everybody is only thinking about 1 lucky all in to double up. So guy had a monster but instead of going all in with it he just min raised to make it look like a steal. And what does guy in SB do ? BAAAM insta shoves lol. Ofc the other insta called and busted him out.
It is a very good tactic but it can go the other way around also, so idk , i think you have to think twice before doing it.

Orcusan, its actually not that tricky at all to do, provided you have a "loose" image going. Like, last two orbits or so you've stolen the blinds from button.

Your slight raise looks like you have a weak hand but you are still trying to steal.

However a lot of better players know this move... So what do you do? Easy, with a "tight" image going, you start raising minimum bets.

This looks to a better player this looks like you have a Monster. I mean, you're tight why would you invite so much action? So everyone folds.

The minimum bet bluff is one of my biggest blind stealer. Tho... it has no effect at all against someone whom can't tell if you're tight or loose.

Anyone see the WPT London event from this year where Jake Cody takes it down? The table is absolutely crazy aggressive like nothing I've ever seen before on the WPT. One player picks up AA in early position and limps. The commentators are absolutely shocked. The guy behind the limper looks down at AQ... and folds. Awesome read.

KC - I agree that this line, in my expirence is extremly succesfull when you are called by the BB.

However, a number of people seem to think that the BB calling means that the BB has a decent hand, but in most situations the BB is simply defending with a hand not strong enough to 3 bet(the merits of this are for a different thread altogether).

It is highly unlikely that the BB will be holding a better Ace as that would have likely 3 bet or shoved preflop. So like KC said a hand that is stronger than ours almost always bets the river, so when we are checked to we generally have the best hand.

Is there the possibility that you could get the same effect betting slightly more on the river? Like 4500 or 5000?

I think this play becomes much more interesting if we are called by the SB, who 99% of the time wont be trying to defend the SB but actually has a hand.

KC - if we say the SB calls and BB folds, whats your line on this type of board/how effectiv do you think the same line is?

Maybe I'm weird, but this seems like a semi-standard line to take for pot control with a likely good but marginal hand. The only hands you become afraid of with that turn is the Adxd/Jdxd types. Everything else is basically shooting for 3-5 outs, which aren't so strong that giving a free card to keep the pot smaller is wrong. Sure, you don't do it all the time, but it's the kind of move that'll keep marginal hands paying. It's not like you're planning to put your stack in if the river peels awful.

Thanks again KC for bringing another strategy to cc, i totally get what you mean and absolutely buzz when i pull it off, the best way for me is when you check the turn and then they lead out..gotcha.
The other day i had AA, i raised pf and a wide range player called, i decided straight off im gonna try get him, A58o shows, i take quite a while and check, he bets 2x min bet (~10th pot), so i take ages then min raise, weird i know, but it messed with his head when he called and then i checked the turn, coz he went and pushed lol.

But yeah..similar to what i do, i like to bet 'exactly' the same as my bet pf, i reckon it looks weak, i then take ages to check on the turn, and hope they bet back or fire on the river.

Also, sometimes, i like to pot bet (if its big) really quickly, and if they call, again, take ages and check the turn hehe and watch them push.
I suppose there really is a few ways to do this, i find it can be slightly different for each of your opponents, you just have to wait for the right moment.

To the above post

Hey watch out for taking too much time. That gives away a hand to me, 90% of the time on FTP if the time clock starts going down they are going to fold, so if the time clock goes down and they call... Well then, its a tell they are trying to trick me!

When I first started playing, that little trick got me and I even used it. Now if I see a time clock going down and there is a slight raise or a call, my red flags go off.

FreeRollWannabe said:

Hey watch out for taking too much time. That gives away a hand to me, 90% of the time on FTP if the time clock starts going down they are going to fold, so if the time clock goes down and they call... Well then, its a tell they are trying to trick me!

When I first started playing, that little trick got me and I even used it. Now if I see a time clock going down and there is a slight raise or a call, my red flags go off.

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I will make sure never to do this to you then lol, i admit this is only used in the most perfect situation...not very often, and im sure i usually only get to do this to newbies or fish.

Yeah that's interesting. One of the most basic tells is that people act strong when they're weak and weak when they're strong (not always obviously). So someone insta-raising on me often means they're weak while, as FreeRoll says above, calling at the last second often means we're in trouble. I don't put too much stock in timing tells, but it's interesting to watch at least.

ManicLombax said:

Yeah that's interesting. One of the most basic tells is that people act strong when they're weak and weak when they're strong (not always obviously). So someone insta-raising on me often means they're weak while, as FreeRoll says above, calling at the last second often means we're in trouble. I don't put too much stock in timing tells, but it's interesting to watch at least.

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Really? I'll think about that, The quick call to me always meant a strong hand or a draw of some sort. Never really associated it to weakness, mainly draws...but a draw can be associated with weakness in of itself.

Back to disguising hands as a bluff, does anyone have a good method of convincing their opponent you are on a draw when you already have a made hand? Or, I have this problem too, is making my hand and then convincing my opponent to bet at it, anyone got suggestions for that?

Quote---both 2 posts above...

Exactly...if i came up against you and used my strategy you would be in trouble with the way you think ...yes?? You would assume im weak when i have a monster and visa versa.

This is why i say it totally depends on the situation you're in and the player you're playing...not often used.

FreeRollWannabe said:

Back to disguising hands as a bluff, does anyone have a good method of convincing their opponent you are on a draw when you already have a made hand? Or, I have this problem too, is making my hand and then convincing my opponent to bet at it, anyone got suggestions for that?

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Please please read the OP, and the whole thread.....