S
ssbn743
Visionary
Silver Level
As a lot of us do, I study lots and lots of Poker. Within the last couple of years, I've found enormous value to Upswing Poker, fully understanding that there are some different ideas floating around among serious tournament/Poker minds.
I had two hands in my last tournament that I'd like to use as a basis for this discussion.
Hand #1
$27K and effective $400/$800/$800 HPT $1,100 Main
HJ -
Folds to me, open $1,800
Folds to BB who 3-bet to $5,500
Now, this is never a fold, and it seems like a 4-bet is profitable here as well. Nonetheless, I settled on a call in the attempt to make sure I balance with some of my other HJ open hands that are clear 4-bets (AK) and clear folds (ATo).
$12,200
BB bets $7,500 and I call, again balancing. My hand is way too strong to fold, and not quite strong enough to raise. Though, in hindsight, I've been thinking a little differently in that, of the hands I call with pre-flop, this is at the top of that range and even when balancing should probably be a flop raise. But anyway, that's the point of this discussion.
$27,200
BB bets $10K
As played, I had no idea where I was at - and I find that routinely occurs when I try to balance hands like this. My stack could not stand to call this turn bet, so this is either an all-in or fold, and either way I'm guessing, and/or hoping he does/doesn't have it.
Hand #2
$50K and effective, $1k/$2k/$2k HPT Main
UTG open $5K
+2
I call
Rest of the table folds
I am absolutely not against a 3-bet here. However, and again in the interest of balance, we need to have some pairs we flat here, some we raise, and some we fold. We know we're folding <66 and 3 betting >QQ, so TT becomes a flat. But......but.....it turns our hand into a passive, no further information, type of hand.
$15,000
UTG bets $12K and I call - again in the too good to fold, not good enough to raise spot.
$35,000
UTG moves all-in.
Now, in this spot I called for reasons not applicable to the question of this post.
In a nutshell, I know UTG well and have had numerous hands with him over years of playing together. Additionally, I thought I had a live read (that turned out to be wrong) and did not have the .
He had the aces, so, whatever, good game - but I again found myself in the guessing spot and used what I thought was a live tell and some card removal to nudge me to the call side.
So anyway, the point of this post is to discuss balance in a tournament. I know that even amongst Upswing staff there is some disagreement on the subject, namely Tonka.
Tonka's opinion is that balance is kind of moot in tournaments since you will probably never see that guy again. I find myself, in the middle a little bit, since I play in Colorado at the same casino, and while 6 players at the table, I've never seen before, 4 I have, and have seen a lot.
Nonetheless, it seems like attempting to balance puts you in bad spots a lot. In both of the above hands, if I have raised at any point - the outcome would have been drastically different and more profitable IMO. But doing so, unbalances us – is that a problem at these stakes?
Like a lot of Poker advice, it comes from high stakes pro’s where this kind of stuff does matter. Against the donk that just flatted an open with a2o in the SB, does any of this shit matter? Or are we just intentionally putting ourselves in a bad spot thinking that we’re balancing with the times we’re nutted up?
Thoughts on this subject anyone?
I had two hands in my last tournament that I'd like to use as a basis for this discussion.
Hand #1
$27K and effective $400/$800/$800 HPT $1,100 Main
HJ -
Folds to me, open $1,800
Folds to BB who 3-bet to $5,500
Now, this is never a fold, and it seems like a 4-bet is profitable here as well. Nonetheless, I settled on a call in the attempt to make sure I balance with some of my other HJ open hands that are clear 4-bets (AK) and clear folds (ATo).
$12,200
BB bets $7,500 and I call, again balancing. My hand is way too strong to fold, and not quite strong enough to raise. Though, in hindsight, I've been thinking a little differently in that, of the hands I call with pre-flop, this is at the top of that range and even when balancing should probably be a flop raise. But anyway, that's the point of this discussion.
$27,200
BB bets $10K
As played, I had no idea where I was at - and I find that routinely occurs when I try to balance hands like this. My stack could not stand to call this turn bet, so this is either an all-in or fold, and either way I'm guessing, and/or hoping he does/doesn't have it.
Hand #2
$50K and effective, $1k/$2k/$2k HPT Main
UTG open $5K
+2
I call
Rest of the table folds
I am absolutely not against a 3-bet here. However, and again in the interest of balance, we need to have some pairs we flat here, some we raise, and some we fold. We know we're folding <66 and 3 betting >QQ, so TT becomes a flat. But......but.....it turns our hand into a passive, no further information, type of hand.
$15,000
UTG bets $12K and I call - again in the too good to fold, not good enough to raise spot.
$35,000
UTG moves all-in.
Now, in this spot I called for reasons not applicable to the question of this post.
In a nutshell, I know UTG well and have had numerous hands with him over years of playing together. Additionally, I thought I had a live read (that turned out to be wrong) and did not have the .
He had the aces, so, whatever, good game - but I again found myself in the guessing spot and used what I thought was a live tell and some card removal to nudge me to the call side.
So anyway, the point of this post is to discuss balance in a tournament. I know that even amongst Upswing staff there is some disagreement on the subject, namely Tonka.
Tonka's opinion is that balance is kind of moot in tournaments since you will probably never see that guy again. I find myself, in the middle a little bit, since I play in Colorado at the same casino, and while 6 players at the table, I've never seen before, 4 I have, and have seen a lot.
Nonetheless, it seems like attempting to balance puts you in bad spots a lot. In both of the above hands, if I have raised at any point - the outcome would have been drastically different and more profitable IMO. But doing so, unbalances us – is that a problem at these stakes?
Like a lot of Poker advice, it comes from high stakes pro’s where this kind of stuff does matter. Against the donk that just flatted an open with a2o in the SB, does any of this shit matter? Or are we just intentionally putting ourselves in a bad spot thinking that we’re balancing with the times we’re nutted up?
Thoughts on this subject anyone?