Deposit more or keep grinding?

TomLeach

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So, after a few casual years of being a poker player (losing), I decided to take it up properly, so several books down and too numerous forum hours later, I would now consider myself a winning player, My BR is around 65$, and i play the 0.55c MTT tourneys (generally the cap ones (super soft) or sometimes a turbo if its undersubbed etc).

In the last couple of days I have played maybe 13 of these (will check the exact number on PT4 later), and have cashed in 5, winning 1 (for around 14$).

Now, i know i can not expect an ITM of 40%, and having played a few more, its down to around 25% ( played several more and only cashed one.)


My question is, from people who have built up their BR, do you think I should conmtinue as i am slowly grinding the 55c tourneys with a min cash of 57c, or deposit another 100$ and get myself rolled for the 1$ tourneys, so my winnings arent raped by the rake as much?

This is just MTT, I am capable at cash games (5NL mainly to avoid similar rake problems), but have been really focusing on tournament strategy recently, so thats why i play much more of these...

Any questions, please ask :)


P.S. This doesnt include shots i take at the 1$ tourneys (in which i have played 3, and cashed once, (for 3.3$)
 
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Thats quite a grind my friend..........I wish I was that disciplined with my bankroll .......grinding that stake seems so tedious but if u are contented with ur profits then please continue.........making a deposit is not a guarantee that u'll win but u might just get the muscle room u need to take more chances for that big (ger) break...............Its up to u to decided if u r satisfied with ur gain so far..
 
TomLeach

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Yeah, thats entirely my thinking... But i wondered if the rake is that much different? Or when it starts to get smaller... (percentage wise obviously).

Im guessing i will be playing with a generally similar field ( the 55c is so soft, but there are a few regs like me who just grind it), so moving up i will lose some regs, and gain some new ones, but also gain a few more people that just want to play 1$ MTTs i guess...
 
dj11

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Since you are willing to deposit, try this first;

Take a shot at some $5 MTT's.

If you can grind the micro micro's, I'm thinking you have no idea of your potential. You may get a big surprise.
 
TomLeach

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Since you are willing to deposit, try this first;

Take a shot at some $5 MTT's.

If you can grind the micro micro's, I'm thinking you have no idea of your potential. You may get a big surprise.

So, with my 75$, play say 4-5 5$ MTT? (any youd recommend? Big 5.50, 5$ 180, 1000cap?) and then if i busto, im down to 50$, and deposit maybe 100$ so that if it fails im rolled for the 1$ MTT?
 
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Well, I kind of feel you're getting frustrated playing for pennies because it's so slow at building your roll?

If you feel you can crush the games, then there is absolutely no reason you can't play the 50c's and move up pretty quickly, especially these cap games as they are very soft.

If I was you, I'd just continue. If you can beat the games you WILL move up it's pretty much impossible not to. If you keep losing you're probably making mistakes you're unaware off and at least then you can post some hands, lose the minimum and then progress from there. I played these exact games and even lower, I started with like $7.00 and played the 25c games and even 10c games, within a month I had a $500 roll and was playing $3 games, fast forward one year I'd moved up and up. I had to withdraw most of my winnings and hard to start over again multiple times but this was only 18 months ago or so and I've managed to do it every time around.

Also, don't focus on ITM %'s...for the most part this is irrelevant. You need to focus on the top 3 places to increase your ROI%. You could very well have a bigger iTM % than me, I've got no idea but I'd guess your ROI% isn't that great? That's just a guess but I'm basing that just on you saying about and focusing on ITM.

The games are super soft, as you know so moving up is even possible after 1-2weeks if the volume is good.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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What PB said, and volume is key with grinding your way out of the micros. Perhaps mixing in some sng's like the 25c or 50c 45mans etc will let you get in a higher volume and as said if you can beat the games then your br should start to grow.

Grinding for pennies obv sucks but gotta make those pennies so you can later turn them into dollars as you move up.
 
TeUnit

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you may think i am silly, but i dont think you should ever deposit, why not play several hundred more mtts and see how it goes

13 games isnt really a sample size, play a couple hundred more and you should have a great feeling of where you are at - then if you are crushing it start taking shots

in the mean time, maybe figure out how you can take advantages of site promos, find the good freerolls, and play in the good forum games
 
TomLeach

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Yeah, i should probably get on the cardschat freerolls... Forgot how to access them though hahah.

In the last 60-70 days ive played 92 tournaments, and cashed 14%, for around 42$. (if youre wondering why this doesnt add up, i misclick joined a 55$ tourney (4max late reg), and took a big hit.

Ill take a break for a few hours, but when i come back, ill try another 55c cap, and some of the SNGs you recommended.

@PokerBen, i guess what youre saying is, dont do the grinding out for a mincash (i dont), but go for the top 5 or bust, because the payout is so heavy?
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Yeah, i should probably get on the cardschat freerolls... Forgot how to access them though hahah.

In the last 60-70 days ive played 92 tournaments, and cashed 14%, for around 42$. (if youre wondering why this doesnt add up, i misclick joined a 55$ tourney (4max late reg), and took a big hit.

filters are your friend

Ill take a break for a few hours, but when i come back, ill try another 55c cap, and some of the SNGs you recommended.

@PokerBen, i guess what youre saying is, dont do the grinding out for a mincash (i dont), but go for the top 5 or bust, because the payout is so heavy?

gl when you get back to the grind, sounds like you are an uber low volume player so it could very well take you quite some time to move up the limits but would certainly suggest to continue the grind and build it up.

Have you thought about making attempts to multitable? Even if you tried 2-tables instead of 1 for a while once comfortable with 2 add another. It will be difficult/near impossible to get any volume to grind up the stakes if only single or 2 tabling.

When we talk volume, this is from the point of probably running a min 9+ tables all the time and sometimes twice that.
 
TomLeach

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gl when you get back to the grind, sounds like you are an uber low volume player so it could very well take you quite some time to move up the limits but would certainly suggest to continue the grind and build it up.

Have you thought about making attempts to multitable? Even if you tried 2-tables instead of 1 for a while once comfortable with 2 add another. It will be difficult/near impossible to get any volume to grind up the stakes if only single or 2 tabling.

When we talk volume, this is from the point of probably running a min 9+ tables all the time and sometimes twice that.

Hey, yeah if there are enough of the tourneys i want to play, i will play 3 tables, if im using my external screen, ill play 4. (I play more optimally with three as i dont get bored just playing one. Sometimes i will play two tourneys and one cash table etc.)
Ive been working recently, so only managed 2-3 a night. But today for example, ive played 4 or 5, but im kinda ill, so only two tabling, and run into a few coolers..
 
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In the last 60-70 days ive played 92 tournaments, and cashed 14%, for around


@PokerBen, i guess what youre saying is, dont do the grinding out for a mincash (i dont), but go for the top 5 or bust, because the payout is so heavy?

Yeah pretty much. always more games to play, we should be busting a lot more than cashing and the top 3 spots more than make up for the bust outs. Only reason I assumed you focused a lot on cashing is because in mtt sng's you shouldent really be focusing on your cashes at all let alone your percentage amount.

In general higher cashes = lower roi%. I think if you look at the biggest winners of the stakes you play you might find you cash more than them but their roi is much more . This could be total guess work on my part in regards to you and I'm just basing my assumption on the context of your posts that's all so forgive me if I'm wrong.
 
curtinsea

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I understand those unwilling to deposit, but there are couple of things about depositing that are worth mentioning . . .

Deposits are essential to the survival of a poker site. It's good that not all players are unwilling to deposit, or there would be no online poker at all. Poker is a zero sum game, as such it is necessary for every dollar taken in rake plus every dollar withdrawn to be replaced by new money (deposits) or the site will die.

Also, consider what your time is worth. If your goal is to make as much money at poker that you can, then making a small investment in yourself is a prudent start.

Ultimately you want to be playing the highest stakes you can beat, and maintain a bankroll sufficient to play those stakes. That combination will show growth in your bankroll, and you can then move up stakes when it is appropriate.
 
TomLeach

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Ultimately you want to be playing the highest stakes you can beat, and maintain a bankroll sufficient to play those stakes. That combination will show growth in your bankroll, and you can then move up stakes when it is appropriate.

Highest stakes I can beat in the sense of consistent winning, yes.

I agree PokerBen, I generally go for the win rather than just a finish, but your point is still helpful, if im cashing and finishing 20/150, i should be just busting and getting less frequent, but higher finishes...

I know my middle game needs some work, so ill focus on improving that whilst i continue to grind a higher volume...

Is it gonna be ok with MODs if i turn this into a progression thread? Or should i start a new one?
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Its certainly not an issue if you want to track your progress in this thread, although I'd suggest perhaps creating a new thread in the bbc forum: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/

That way you can track it as a challenge for yourself and others to follow along as well, can outline your goals what you play and make updates along the way.

Cheers.
 
intents09

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Since you are willing to deposit, try this first;

Take a shot at some $5 MTT's.

If you can grind the micro micro's, I'm thinking you have no idea of your potential. You may get a big surprise.

I agree with dj11 on if you're willing and able to deposit, hold off, but maybe start playing some of those 1$ games now, before you deposit. Just because we roll ourselves for bigger games doesn't necessarily mean we will beat them consistently. So I say give it a go now before depositing and if it's a game you're able to beat consistently you may not need to deposit after all.

I also agree on the points of volume. I've found that since I started playing well within my means I am multi tabling far more at a time because I'm not worried about each individual game. I used to have poor brm and every game I played I was so focused and so butthurt after losing. It's amazing how simple brm is of a concept, yet, at least for some, so hard to apply. But once you can apply it, it really makes the game more enjoyable, as those beats hurt less if at all.
 
dj11

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Since you are willing to deposit, try this first;

Take a shot at some $5 MTT's.

If you can grind the micro micro's, I'm thinking you have no idea of your potential. You may get a big surprise.

So, with my 75$, play say 4-5 5$ MTT? (any youd recommend? Big 5.50, 5$ 180, 1000cap?) and then if i busto, im down to 50$, and deposit maybe 100$ so that if it fails im rolled for the 1$ MTT?

Yes, I can't recommend any MTT's at Stars since I am in the US and I am not recently familiar with any of them.

Keep in mind that BRM is for those of us who are cheaper than hell, and either don't want to, or can't easily deposit. In any case involving Stars (FT, Party, etc), we in the US can not deposit, and those sites that do serve the US are often very difficult as far as depositing goes. So we are left forcing ourselves to practice pretty tight BRM. In your case, you tell us you have the micro micro's figured out, and depositing is not much of a thing for you. Lucky you. ;)

It is time for you to shit or get off the pot. :eek:
 
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Aces2w1n

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Being tight BRM is great practice though for when you have thousands if not more.... You will make better decisions with your money and unlikely to lose a huge brm because you'll have gotten yourself into great habbits with a very small BR


You just have to treat whatever amount you got the same... and keep within the limits of your game.



...........................


Hmmm but really the question is if your crushing this level??? Why not enjoy the ride and keep doing so because eventually you'll outgrow the buy-in games your playing now. If your winning a couple games now perhaps your just on a heater and want to justify pretending your something your not at this stage?

Just keep it together keep playing solid and don't do anything stupid... If your gaining winnings just keep going grinding away because if you lack the discipline now to get off your game you will fail when you have tougher decisions later down the track.

So grind away and slide up slowly.




..........................


If your going up 5 dollars a month... if you hit a good month with more use that extra money to take a stab at a bigger tournament? Make sure the difference to ur profits already though but only if your consistently winning
 
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stevenright

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keep grinding and please stop considering yourself a winning player, consider yourself a learning player

good luck at the tables!
 
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Add 75 dollars to your bankroll and play the 1 dollar tourneys for a month. If you have a nice score in that time and feel like taking a shot at some 5 dollar tourneys that is reasonable. Eventually the grind of playing micros will wear you out physically or you just won't play your A game as often over time - moving up gradually and maybe you will hit a big score or your consistent cashes will add up - Best of luck whichever way you go!
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I'd say that if you are multitabling the micros and winning consistently, and you are at the point where the cash infusion from a top 3 finish doesn't even excite you too much anymore....that is a sign that you are ready to move up in stakes.

You don't have to actually deposit to move up in stakes either. Just understand that you have a higher risk of ruin but it sounds like your skills are there to grind the $1 tourneys. (I find the $1 tourneys to be super soft by the way)

Maybe start by running two $0.55 tourneys and one $1 at a time...sort of "easing into" the higher stakes.

Your bankroll is actually just all the money you are willing to devote to poker, not how much you have deposited on a site.

My actual "bankroll" is about 15x higher than what I have deposited on any single site.

Edit to add: Oh and playing in the CC freerolls is a NO BRAINER!! Not only will it give you a sense of what it is like to play the higher stakes (I think our CC freerolls "feel" like roughly a $5 tourney based on the skill of the players") But you quite literally have nothing to lose. usually there are around 80 players that enter a $200 freeroll meaning the "value" of each seat is over $2.00. That is money you're just leaving on the table....
 
TomLeach

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I'd say that if you are multitabling the micros and winning consistently, and you are at the point where the cash infusion from a top 3 finish doesn't even excite you too much anymore....that is a sign that you are ready to move up in stakes.

You don't have to actually deposit to move up in stakes either. Just understand that you have a higher risk of ruin but it sounds like your skills are there to grind the $1 tourneys. (I find the $1 tourneys to be super soft by the way)

Maybe start by running two $0.55 tourneys and one $1 at a time...sort of "easing into" the higher stakes.

Your bankroll is actually just all the money you are willing to devote to poker, not how much you have deposited on a site.

My actual "bankroll" is about 15x higher than what I have deposited on any single site.

Edit to add: Oh and playing in the CC freerolls is a NO BRAINER!! Not only will it give you a sense of what it is like to play the higher stakes (I think our CC freerolls "feel" like roughly a $5 tourney based on the skill of the players") But you quite literally have nothing to lose. usually there are around 80 players that enter a $200 freeroll meaning the "value" of each seat is over $2.00. That is money you're just leaving on the table....

Some great points there...

My 'effective' BR is now at 95$, and so i will not three table two 55c and a 1$ one and see how it goes... Will start a new challenge thread somehwere else i guess
 
TomLeach

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To update you guys, I carried on grinding but also deposited (to take advantage of Stars' 25% bonus), i deposited 100$ and its now over 200$ :)
 
Sil3ntness

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To update you guys, I carried on grinding but also deposited (to take advantage of Stars' 25% bonus), i deposited 100$ and its now over 200$ :)

Nice congrats! That deposit should give you some breathing room on your grind. Good luck :)
 
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