Dealing with Open Shoves Early Tournament

JBGoode

JBGoode

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So I came across a situation last night, that looking back would have probably allowed me to get into the money. I know I played it right, I know the people at the table were inexperienced, but when the results came out it was frustrating....

I was LP (the CO I do believe), about 75BB effective, and its the 3rd hand of the tournament. I get 33. Fold around to MP somewhere, where a player open shoves with about 75 BBs. If course I fold, but the BUT calls, and the BB calls. If I remember correctly, MP had KK, BUT has AJs, and BB has like J9s or something. Well a K never came, no A, and the draw did not complete for the J9s, and my 33 hit.


My question is how do you deal with these kind of disappointments, and how does it effect your game?


Be honest, and for the record, I already know the answer. I just like to see what everyone has to say about it. hahahaha
 
iwont20

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Won't call 75bb with 33, don't care about board. I can understand frustration if the stacks were way lower and it seemed at that time as a borderline decision but calling for 75bb stack with 33? No thanks.
 
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KevinLee

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It isn't a disappointment. Only a fool would call a 75bb open shove with 33. You are way behind or most likely flipping. Don't be disappointed, pat yourself on the back for not punting your stack and play.
 
Herkstwin

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No Brainer

Folding 33 from late early in a tourney to a shove is a no brainer. The shove could be a donk willing to gamble on any two. Regardless of the player's motive, there are only two hands I would challenge with - AA and KK.


It is always disappointing to see the flop hit the hand you just folded, even if it comes out 772 and you folded 72. Just focus on the math and remember that this hand will not win many hands - ever!!
 
JOKE on YOU

JOKE on YOU

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Folding 33 from late early in a tourney to a shove is a no brainer. The shove could be a donk willing to gamble on any two. Regardless of the player's motive, there are only two hands I would challenge with - AA and KK.


It is always disappointing to see the flop hit the hand you just folded, even if it comes out 772 and you folded 72. Just focus on the math and remember that this hand will not win many hands - ever!!
Early or late I'll fold 33 unless I have enough chips to cover the loss anything can beat 33 for example a 4
 
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Mateo

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As others have said just ignore how the board runs out. Sure you might hit a 3 every so often, but it's not worth risking your tournament life over that. Even with any two random cards you're flipping as they will most likely be overcards. Later in a tourney I could justify taking this flip, but not early. Gotta stay tight and slowly build the stack
 
Chito

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Shoving over 40bb with anything not nutted is super -ev imo
 
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louaylouay

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Ya, correct fold. You don't worry about the board when you fold, those cards are gone and your decisions are over. Even if the flop came 33x, thats not a bet you take. I will happily bet you $75 per flop, You pay me when you dont hit a set, I pay you when you do. See? You're way behind. Look at it that way.

Now, if you were SUPER short stacked, I'm talking like 5BB short, you can call that. You're hoping for a coinflip, which any 2 cards that aren't paired will give you. Then the correct decision may be to call.

Although, as I reread it, with a shove and 2 addt'l callers ahead of you, you're probably dead in the water and are better off shoving most any other 2 cards.

33 HAS to be played heads up if you're going to put your tournament life on the line. Almost ANY OTHER 2 cards are a 50/50 shot. Turn that 2 cards into 6 cards and you're in some real trouble.



To answer the title question, fold most of your hands. Yes, it is possible they are shoving with 72o and you will dominate them. Yes, you might have two suited cards that look pretty together. The thing is, in most tournaments, a double up in the first hand is the same as a double up an hour later. Blinds don't usually move that quickly in a MTT (unless youre playing hyper, but even still). It is better to choose a better situation to get your chips into than one where your tournament life is on the line with 0 info ahead of you.


Yes, Call AA and KK and AKs maybe, that's really it if you're early in the tournament. I actually read somewhere that AA is 80%ish against any 2 cards, on average. That percentage goes down by 10% for each additional person in the pot. If I had AA vs 5 players all in ahead of me, early in a tournament, and I was covered, I would probably fold it.
 
Last edited:
Robmrjet

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So I came across a situation last night, that looking back would have probably allowed me to get into the money. I know I played it right, I know the people at the table were inexperienced, but when the results came out it was frustrating....

I was LP (the CO I do believe), about 75BB effective, and its the 3rd hand of the tournament. I get 33. Fold around to MP somewhere, where a player open shoves with about 75 BBs. If course I fold, but the BUT calls, and the BB calls. If I remember correctly, MP had KK, BUT has AJs, and BB has like J9s or something. Well a K never came, no A, and the draw did not complete for the J9s, and my 33 hit.


My question is how do you deal with these kind of disappointments, and how does it effect your game?


Be honest, and for the record, I already know the answer. I just like to see what everyone has to say about it. hahahaha

"My question is how do you deal with these kind of disappointments, and how does it effect your game?"

If I'm serious about playing at that moment in time....
sip the old CrownRoyal, ...
and wait for the dealer to do his thing.

That's my Honest answer.

(((Unless it's a freeroll. :fight:
Then the first strong 7 2 offsuit...I'm going to do it too. :D)))
 
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TheFaissal

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It happen to me all the time, and its really disappointing to see my hand hits and could win a very big pot! but I do know that i made the right choice by folding that hand, getting 75BB preflop is just sick, unless i have too with AA or KK, otherwise its a disappointing fold:confused:
 
JBGoode

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"My question is how do you deal with these kind of disappointments, and how does it effect your game?"

If I'm serious about playing at that moment in time....
sip the old CrownRoyal, ...
and wait for the dealer to do his thing.

That's my Honest answer.

(((Unless it's a freeroll. :fight:
Then the first strong 7 2 offsuit...I'm going to do it too. :D)))
Now that's an honest answer right there! Even though the 72s was a joke. At least I hope it was. I guess the reason I brought this up is....

Even though I know I made the right play, even though I should never be risking tournament life on a 33 with that large of a stack. On the other hand it makes me think, I was 4 away from the bubble when I went up. If was to call, and my hand held up. I would have made the money, assuming I played the rest of the tournament the same way I did...

Now I start to think, Wow, this is exactly what happens to players that never get out of Freeroll stage in their poker careers. They think back on all the time they could have won, or the times they were sucked out on, and end up turning into fish/weak tight players. Cause some cant accept the fact the best hand doesn't always win. They don't take the time to learn the math, they don't take the time to learn the physiology. Then get upset when they lose. Very eye opening for me none the less. So I thought I would share.
 
guccipix

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Virtually only making this call with AA or KK, even if you are ahead or have a coin flip, it's not very profitable to put your stack at risk so early. You'll have plenty of MUCH BETTER opportunities down the road that you can cash in on.
 
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TheShek

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Don't look at the board if it bothers you. Walk away from the screen or the table for a few seconds. It's always frustrating to see you would have hit a set but you absolutely can't call, as you know. And to develop as a player you need to learn to not care about things like this.
 
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neptun1914

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Well calling with 33 two shoves is definitely something i will not do unless i am very short stack (5BB or less). I have seen people entering pot with weak hands and getting lucky flopping set or even better but many more times i have seen people being busted by stronger hands so do not worry. Yes poker includes element of luck so sometimes the right decision gives bad results and the bad decision gives good results. In many more cases though right decision will give good results so you should not be frustrated from that.

Regarding the early stage of tournament - i tryto avoid going all-in in the first 3 levels unless i have AA, KK or QQ.
 
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Maurits92

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It's a good fold. Only a maniac gambler would call 33 from LP early in the tournament for 75BB. I would only call KK or AA in this situation.
 
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Jr1447

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play tight and wait for the right hand
 
vinnyvee

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I deal with disappointment one of two ways. The Crown Royal Method ( only I use single malt Scotch) or the truly best way. Move on and live in the present. Whether your decision was right or wrong ( you were clearly right on this one) you have to clear that shit out of your head and make the next decision unbiased. No one makes the right play every time, but winning players put their mistakes in the rear view and analyze the next hand free of the baggage of disappointment.
Get up from the table if you have to and take a walk for a hand if you need to clear your head. I just breath and count 10 breathes and only think about the act of breathing in that time.
Then I jump into the next hand and remain in the present until I have to breath again.
Sounds stupid, but it works. Letting disappointment in your head, justified or not, is a form of tilt that will eat at your future decisions. Pretend your wife is about to use your laptop and clear your history...:)
 
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619Leafs

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I would never call an all-in with 33 early in the tournament. You are asking for trouble if you are putting your chips in the middle.
 
Ragequit

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The risk just isn't worth the reward in that spot. You've only just started and basically just flipping for your stack way too early on. The blinds are miniscule!
 
Nathan Smith

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You deal with these situations by realizing 20% of the time you lose to the bigger overpairs. So if you call ten times in these situations with pocket threes, you should lose your stack eight times
 
jfmcd86

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That was a good fold i would say , despite the 33 on the board...I wouldn't call 33 with an all in at early stages of a tournament. So Keep it up, Don't be like those donkey like fishes .
 
danoscar

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Push or shove?

For me early, possibly 3rd hand, with a 33 is something I can throw away. However, if I feel I can bet one BB and get to the flop, I will take the chance and hope for a set. Early in the tournament means lots of other hands to win with yet to come.
 
hyperion

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Elementary legue and level5 level10 level20 at 888 are just like that!We have to deal with these players shoving early but if we get a premiun hand maybe this is time to get a big pot.
 
kraemer

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A multi-way all-in with 3 opponents holding 33 is such a horrible situation that I would be happy to have made that fold.

The fact that this hand was one of the very few cases in which you win the pot doesn’t make it less clever to have folded.

I do not know what kind of tournament it was but especially in early stages of low stakes you often have opponents who shove any pocket pair. Calling with 33 will probably leave you with a coinflip half the time and with just 2 outs for a set the other half. And then there is the once in anyway case you described.
 
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