Deal with a smaller fullhouse when you are deep

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neafana

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Hi guys,


I had the following situation:


I was in 4.4 bounty builder, more than 3000 people. Blinds 100/200 and I was in the lojack with 80BB stack. The SB had 50BB and the BB 120BB. The BB was a reg (not a very good one, most probably)


I had 33 and I've minraised. The SB (very active and aggressive player,playing 43/30 and 4 aggression factor) calls and of course the BB calls. (the pot was around 1800)


Flop AJJ. Everybody checks.


Turn 3.

Everybody checks and I've checked also (I was thinking that if I bet they will fold, or if they had something better (less probably:), I pot control.)


The river is a 6 and the SB bets 700 and the BB raised to 4000.


At this moment I was putting the SB on a Ace and the BB on fullhouse or a Jack and I was calling (raising being out of the question).


At this moment the SB went all in, the BB called and after 30 seconds I called also (being tough to lay down a fullhouse).


Of course I have lost it:)). The SB had AJ and BB J4s.


Would you have ever folded this???
 
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Sprockett

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Even tho we are very deep for a turny I dont think I would get away from this. The only hand we really are afraid of is AJ and maybe 66 (Its very rare to see someone slowplay AA from the blinds, and who the hell flop quads). I would have bet the turn to try to get value of weak Ax and mid pairs. I might even bet the flop to take down right away. When we get so mutch action at the river its very scary. But the hands you put them is reasonable and people make crazy plays, so I see myself make a crying call on the river.

Just my 2 cents


Sprockett
 
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neafana

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Even tho we are very deep for a turny I dont think I would get away from this. The only hand we really are afraid of is AJ and maybe 66 (Its very rare to see someone slowplay AA from the blinds, and who the hell flop quads). I would have bet the turn to try to get value of weak Ax and mid pairs. I might even bet the flop to take down right away. When we get so mutch action at the river its very scary. But the hands you put them is reasonable and people make crazy plays, so I see myself make a crying call on the river.

Just my 2 cents


Sprockett



Like this I was thinking also. At this level people are raising and calling a lot with mediocre hands. Maybe you are right with betting on the turn, but on the flop I didn't want to scare them away.


I remember at this level I had nut flush and the guy had a straight. I bet 80% of the pot to extract value and he went all in :) And I'm not a LAG in order to justify his raising.
 
gon4iypes

gon4iypes

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yup, sometimes it's just not your day. Put it down to variance and in the long run it will even out.
 
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Ofarah

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In hindsight you probably should’ve bet the flop to see where you were at with 2 other players in the pot. AJ May have reraise and here you will probably fold 33 without having to see the turn card which was actually the money card he needed you to hit.

After seeing the turn there’s no way you can fold imo
 
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nellorossi83

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I dont think you make a wrong play. You had good chances.. it´s all ok.
 
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mavradal

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I might've folded against two tight players, but in this case I would've called as well.
 
foran

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everything can happen in the game, so you have to be cautious when there may be better games than yours.
 
sedlacekj

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Not betting earlier on is what let you build the hand you couldn't fold. Had you bet on the flop and gotten raised, you probably would have folded there. That being said, another thing to keep in mind if you are playing this sort of Full house, is to be careful when your hand has the lower members of the FH. in JJ333, you are holding the least of these. The board has the big cards. Your equity is a lot better if you are holding JJ and board has 333, or even better you are holding JJ, and board is J33. That is a strong FH. With the board like it was, AJJ36, the hands that have you beat are AA, AJ, J6, and 66. Wiht FH hands, it is better if you are holding 2 of the larger cards instead of the smaller. Once you get to the river action tho, you really don't have a choice becuase you have 91% equity over SB and BB with a weak FH. The best action is to raise at the flop just to see if you get action. probably both would have acted and you would have folded 33 to JJ saving yourself. It si the only thing that saves you from the later turn.
 
eetenor

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Next level thinking

Hi guys,


I had the following situation:


I was in 4.4 bounty builder, more than 3000 people. Blinds 100/200 and I was in the lojack with 80BB stack. The SB had 50BB and the BB 120BB. The BB was a reg (not a very good one, most probably)


I had 33 and I've minraised. The SB (very active and aggressive player,playing 43/30 and 4 aggression factor) calls and of course the BB calls. (the pot was around 1800)


Flop AJJ. Everybody checks.


Turn 3.

Everybody checks and I've checked also (I was thinking that if I bet they will fold, or if they had something better (less probably:), I pot control.)


The river is a 6 and the SB bets 700 and the BB raised to 4000.


At this moment I was putting the SB on a Ace and the BB on fullhouse or a Jack and I was calling (raising being out of the question).


At this moment the SB went all in, the BB called and after 30 seconds I called also (being tough to lay down a fullhouse).


Of course I have lost it:)). The SB had AJ and BB J4s.


Would you have ever folded this???


New players have trouble folding full houses even when the action dictates it. Assuming that neither of two players could have a full house under these exact circumstance seems a little hopeful.
Review the betting sequence on the river again and consider the possibility that one of your opponents was a thinking player. As it turns out one of them was. The SB was an active and aggressive player who did not come alive until a 6 hit the river. Then SB led was raised 4k had the original raiser call 4k and then SB shoved. If he is does not have a full house why does he think no one else does.

Again the SB was a loose aggressive player who did not lead turn but went all in on the river by shoving on a 4k raise called by you.

If ever you are going to make the mistake of giving an opponent too much credit it would be under those circumstances.

:)
 
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COKO

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Anyone knows meaning of "43/30", please explain me. I have no idea...
 
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nameless1537

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Anyone knows meaning of "43/30", please explain me. I have no idea...


I think it’s the VPIP (voluntarily played in pot — percentage of pots played by putting money in without limping in as BB) / PFR (pre flop raise — percentage of hands played with pre flop raise). These stats are typically tracked by a poker tracker tells you a lot of what you need to know about an opponent’s playstyle.

These stats show up on the HUD. 43/30 is showing a pretty aggressive and maniacal player (if in cash game), and so you’d put that player on a wider range.

The other stat mentioned is the aggression factor post flop. A factor of 2 or 3 is considered within normal. Around 1 indicates passive play and over 3 is hyper aggressive, I think.

Hope this helps.
 
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martinf1971

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Hi guys,


I had the following situation:


I was in 4.4 bounty builder, more than 3000 people. Blinds 100/200 and I was in the lojack with 80BB stack. The SB had 50BB and the BB 120BB. The BB was a reg (not a very good one, most probably)


I had 33 and I've minraised. The SB (very active and aggressive player,playing 43/30 and 4 aggression factor) calls and of course the BB calls. (the pot was around 1800)


Flop AJJ. Everybody checks.


Turn 3.

Everybody checks and I've checked also (I was thinking that if I bet they will fold, or if they had something better (less probably:), I pot control.)


The river is a 6 and the SB bets 700 and the BB raised to 4000.


At this moment I was putting the SB on a Ace and the BB on fullhouse or a Jack and I was calling (raising being out of the question).


At this moment the SB went all in, the BB called and after 30 seconds I called also (being tough to lay down a fullhouse).


Of course I have lost it:)). The SB had AJ and BB J4s.


Would you have ever folded this???

Realistically once someone raises my raise my pocket 3s would be folded if you did this preflop you would have still been in the game lets i mean come on theres only really 2 cards that improve your hand in 50 cards thats a 4% chance the odds are not in your favour so fold next time. :)
 
danix

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You should have bet on FLOP to see the table situation. If I had bet I would have received villain action and would fold, avoiding the damage that happened. No more folding on the river.
 
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Milan Godhania

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Folding small pair in some situation is the same as folding A, #, the kicker being the big problem. You need to raise too avoid giving everything away.
 
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yoejslattery

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It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if you bet the turn. I don't think either player would have folded but you actually may have gotten your pot control. I think SB still bets on the river but BB may have just called knowing that you had been the aggressor on the turn and then you can just call the SBs bet since reraising in that spot probably only gets called by better.
 
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Veritas

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Would you have ever folded this???


Hard to lay down a full house we made with a set on the turn.


AJ and 66 are Pretty much the only Hands that beats us and with such Deep stacks I would only put SB on AJ if he 3bets us, not if he just calls.


For me the Hand is too strong to fold without a read on SB and BB


Not betting earlier on is what let you build the hand you couldn't fold. Had you bet on the flop and gotten raised, you probably would have folded there. That being said, another thing to keep in mind if you are playing this sort of Full house, is to be careful when your hand has the lower members of the FH. in JJ333, you are holding the least of these. The board has the big cards. Your equity is a lot better if you are holding JJ and board has 333, or even better you are holding JJ, and board is J33. That is a strong FH. With the board like it was, AJJ36, the hands that have you beat are AA, AJ, J6, and 66. Wiht FH hands, it is better if you are holding 2 of the larger cards instead of the smaller. Once you get to the river action tho, you really don't have a choice becuase you have 91% equity over SB and BB with a weak FH. The best action is to raise at the flop just to see if you get action. probably both would have acted and you would have folded 33 to JJ saving yourself. It si the only thing that saves you from the later turn.
I think a bet on the flop wouldn't Change much because they both think the have the nuts and try to slow roll and not scare you out of the pot.
with AJ a reraise on a A J J flop would be a bad Play. Once the 3 hits it's hard to get away because only a few Hands could beat us and with the board having blockers for those Hands, it makes it less likely that our opponents have them.
Lets say sb/bb would 3bet with AA and AJ. There is only J6 and 66. But we beat a lot of other Hands like Jx and Ax.
we can't fold with only those 2-3 Hands in their range to beat us
 
vnnby

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You had a small chance to win. You need raise after flop and check them and than fold(almost sure that the guys reraise or allin). Better have a sustainable income than nothing, but it's only my opinion.
 
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ROYALROAD

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it's possible to fold

A full house, when having the knowledge which analyzes the difficult but various situation, it's possible to fold.
 
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