Curious about this hand

A

alex5207

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I was playing 90man sng 13 seats paid - 14 players left

Note: Since villain was a huge big stack he was calling of every raise and shove. Saw him earlier call shove preflop with 72o - so when i saw the 10 at the flop I assumed i was ahead - but i want you guys opinion (he probably had vpip/pfr at 70/60 at these late stages

Table '830213669 9' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: exlesi (19760 in chips)
Seat 3: magico1234 (17270 in chips)
Seat 4: Alex bille (4545 in chips)
Seat 5: Nostrama666 (10121 in chips)
Seat 6: orpehtymot (10051 in chips)
Seat 7: poisonedfish (4720 in chips)
Seat 8: jaqueline100 (2636 in chips)
exlesi: posts the ante 75
magico1234: posts the ante 75
Alex bille: posts the ante 75
Nostrama666: posts the ante 75
orpehtymot: posts the ante 75
poisonedfish: posts the ante 75
jaqueline100: posts the ante 75
magico1234: posts small blind 400
Alex bille: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alex bille [Th 7h]
Nostrama666: folds
orpehtymot: folds
poisonedfish: folds
jaqueline100: folds
exlesi: raises 800 to 1600
magico1234: folds
Alex bille: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [Ts Jd Qc]
Alex bille: bets 2870 and is all-in
exlesi: calls 2870
*** TURN *** [Ts Jd Qc] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [Ts Jd Qc 8h] [Qh]
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Shove or fold pre-. If you're playing to cash, then fold. You basically have no fold equity since the pot odds would be such that he should call with any two. You'll also miss the flop 2/3 of the time, and then what are you going to do? Fold? Then why not fold pre- and save yourself the 800? bluff shove? Then why not shove initially?

Most of the times you do hit the flop, you'll make one pair. Whether you hit the 7 or the T, you'll pretty much have to get it in with your modest pair. Not bad, but certainly not great.

If you're playing to finish high and possibly win, then shove. Yes, there's a good chance you'll bubble. But to finish high with your chip stack, you're going to need some luck anyway so why not go for it against a player whose range is any two cards? Vs. ATC, you're actually a slight favorite, 50.6%. And when you win, you more than double up.

Over the long run, giving up chips by playing tight at the bubble is sub-optimal in terms of how much money you'll win.
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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You are committing 1/3 of your stack pre with 10 7? Personally I'm folding but a shove is fine also
 
A

alex5207

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I kind of felt that I could afford to fold the flop if I didn't hit, so that's why i called - and didn't shove to maybe give it another try later
 
Dee Dee

Dee Dee

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You started hand with less than 6bbs, either shove over his button raise or fold to it because calling is not a good play. And you cannot afford to fold the flop by the way.
 
dresturn2

dresturn2

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This is terrible (charles barkley voice).....dont take that line eh eh ever....just fold man....always better to get it in short when you are the aggressor preflop
 
E

emilio3645

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Considering you are one spot away from the money and your hand is a weak one, and the fact that you're not short stack. Your options are only to shove or fold.
I would not shove here, you can survive a few more hands and make the money.
 
hobonc

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Regardless of what happened on this particular hand, even with a guaranteed heads up, I'm pretty sure shoving into a pre-flop raiser holding bottom pair on a board that wet is -EV. And that's not even factoring in that whole fold equity deficiency thingy you got going on there.

When extremely short stacked (less than 10 bb or so), your fold equity (the expectation the size of your stack will induce the other players left to act into folding) is diminished. If a large stack villain catches any of the flop it likely will further diminish fold equity. Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to play a hand unless you're willing to put it all in pre-flop. Low fold equity will also be a factor if you happen to catch monsters. A pre-flop shove is more likely to induce calls where you have villain dominated.

Bubbling shouldn't be a deciding factor unless the money for min cashing can affect your life in a big way.
 
A

alex5207

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Regardless of what happened on this particular hand, even with a guaranteed heads up, I'm pretty sure shoving into a pre-flop raiser holding bottom pair on a board that wet is -EV. And that's not even factoring in that whole fold equity deficiency thingy you got going on there.

When extremely short stacked (less than 10 bb or so), your fold equity (the expectation the size of your stack will induce the other players left to act into folding) is diminished. If a large stack villain catches any of the flop it likely will further diminish fold equity. Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to play a hand unless you're willing to put it all in pre-flop. Low fold equity will also be a factor if you happen to catch monsters. A pre-flop shove is more likely to induce calls where you have villain dominated.

Bubbling shouldn't be a deciding factor unless the money for min cashing can affect your life in a big way.

I agree with you on all your statements. I especially like the last one with bubbling ;)
 
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