Correct Play? Standard or Horrible

Hand from CC Freeroll earlier
Flat Structure so to me was a standard shove from SB although BB wasnt too happy, maybe if I had xray glasses it would be different.

better than average hand against BB with 8-9 BBs

pretty standard shove if you ask me.. i would even shove Q9s+ aswell

Sklansky-Chubukov chart says shoving K2o is profitable in 10bb or less effective stacks.

Goooddd said:

Sklansky-Chubukov chart says shoving K2o is profitable in 10bb or less effective stacks.

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All people knows S-C shove nowadays. It's 2014 poker and not 2008 . You'll be called with a wider range on this since you are also viewed as in wider range (shoving any 2 cards).

Standard shove, your opponent only has 8BB and you have a lot of folding equity. Folding K2 is a little bit tight when you have the chip advantage.

How many are left etc? Is the guy fishy, has he been tight etc, if this guy is a fishy spewer, then he might think its ok to call with QJ or any pictures.. but it also depends where you are in the tourney and how many are left i think..

deluns28 said:

All people knows S-C shove nowadays. It's 2014 poker and not 2008 . You'll be called with a wider range on this since you are also viewed as in wider range (shoving any 2 cards).

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You can't exploit S-C even in 2114

TomLeach said:

How many are left etc? Is the guy fishy, has he been tight etc, if this guy is a fishy spewer, then he might think its ok to call with QJ or any pictures.. but it also depends where you are in the tourney and how many are left i think..

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just the 5 in the picture and payouts are so flat u have to scroll across to see them

oops forgot to add BB is a rock

rhombus said:

just the 5 in the picture and payouts are so flat u have to scroll across to see them

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Yeah, my bad... I mean, i cant see it getting past the big stack on the button, if it did for whatever reason, then jamming might be ok, but he knows you should be jamming most cards there, so maybe hes gonna call wider than you would hope... any ace and any king are ahead, and youre 60/40 with hands like QJ,Q10 etc if he wants to get a bit out of line...

Also, theres like a 50% jump in between each payment...

The bigstack has 4x what you have, but youre all pretty shallow, so depends how good your heads up play is i guess. Raise fold is pretty grim line here, but id back myself ICM wise to find a better position here... Especially without a read on BB.

TomLeach said:

Yeah, my bad... I mean, i cant see it getting past the big stack on the button, if it did for whatever reason, then jamming might be ok, but he knows you should be jamming most cards there, so maybe hes gonna call wider than you would hope... any ace and any king are ahead, and youre 60/40 with hands like QJ,Q10 etc if he wants to get a bit out of line...

Also, theres like a 50% jump in between each payment...

The bigstack has 4x what you have, but youre all pretty shallow, so depends how good your heads up play is i guess. Raise fold is pretty grim line here, but id back myself ICM wise to find a better position here... Especially without a read on BB.

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50% is when down to 3, at 5 only about 20-25 increase,

maybe need to study ICM to understand the numbers better

Well, K2o, is 50.5% against any random hand. What do you think the minimum is he would call with?

If he calls with 66+,A2s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,A8o+,KTo+,QJo which may be a little wider than you would hope... (its 18%) then youre 31% favourite.

If we take out a little of his range: 66+,A8s+,KTs+,QJs,JTs,ATo+,KTo+ then youre dropping to 29%.

Average 30% favourite when he calls. Which gives you 14500*0.3= +4350
I guess hes calling 18% of the time, so he folds 82% of the time = +1700.

(0.82*1700)+(0.06*14500)-(0.12*7000)= +1424

If i have done the maths right, then it looks like a positive shove...

TomLeach said:

Well, K2o, is 50.5% against any random hand. What do you think the minimum is he would call with?

If he calls with 66+,A2s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,A8o+,KTo+,QJo which may be a little wider than you would hope... (its 18%) then youre 31% favourite.

If we take out a little of his range: 66+,A8s+,KTs+,QJs,JTs,ATo+,KTo+ then youre dropping to 29%.

Average 30% favourite when he calls. Which gives you 14500*0.3= +4350
I guess hes calling 18% of the time, so he folds 82% of the time = +1700.

(0.82*1700)+(0.06*14500)-(0.12*7000)= +1424

If i have done the maths right, then it looks like a positive shove...

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Thanks for explantion

Geez lots of numbers, think at end of day more come down to feel and approximations as way to complex to calculate at the table.

rhombus said:

Thanks for explantion

Geez lots of numbers, think at end of day more come down to feel and approximations as way to complex to calculate at the table.

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Ofcourse, way too much to calculate at the table.. but if you learn how your equity compares with a set range of hands, then you can work it out

Itll be second nature to you soon xD

rhombus said:

Thanks for explantion

Geez lots of numbers, think at end of day more come down to feel and approximations as way to complex to calculate at the table.

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I'm with you. My head was about to explode reading that calculation.

TomLeach is spot on with the explanation though!

Pretty standard shove. If the opponent is tight, the better for you

Definite shove here. Everyone seems to explain it pretty well. Especially you Tom love the calculations.

I like the gamble, you need to build chips rather than get blinded out. There is nothing wrong with shoving with less than premium holdings in certain situations.

Ill go with shove here.

I had the same experience like this but my hand is Q2 and folded and regretted later.

When YOU are not desperate, NEVER shove K2. It is just bad. Especially in a spot where you are almost always getting called. For Pete's sake do not 3bet shove with it vs an early position raise that likely pot committed the original raiser. Also, shove/ call charts are made with BAD assumptions. Competent players are NOT putting their money in bad anywhere near as often as it is assumed.

GWU73 said:

When YOU are not desperate, NEVER shove K2. It is just bad. Especially in a spot where you are almost always getting called. For Pete's sake do not 3bet shove with it vs an early position raise that likely pot committed the original raiser. Also, shove/ call charts are made with BAD assumptions. Competent players are NOT putting their money in bad anywhere near as often as it is assumed.

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How often do you think the BB with 10BB is calling? There will only be 8750 in the pot and he will have to call 6000, which is his tournament life. Hes only getting 1.45/1 on his call, so to break even he has to have ATLEAST 41% equity in the pot. IE. AT vs KQ.

Like i demonstrated earlier, even when villain calls, he's only losing 70% of the time.

Its a higher variance play I guess, but thats how you treat a short stack, your other options are FOLD - You hand the 500 ante and your 400 blind, plus the SB 800 blind back to the short stack. CALL - Not know where you are in the hand if its checked, or faise an all in shove from SB (Which you have to fold). Raise to somewhere between 16-1800, still unsure where you are in the hand, although you can assume him a reasonable range, however most likely you face a fold or a resteal.