Was this the correct play here?

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Claws

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$10,000 GTD

Field: 20/1360
Blinds: 15,000/30,000 3,000 Ante
Average Stack: 575,000


Cards dealt to Hero [Qd,Jd]

Starting Chips: 316,204
Ending Chips: 100,905


UTG Fold (690,617)
UTG+1 [Hero] (313,204) Call 30,000
UTG+2 Fold (88,472)
UTG+3 Fold (512,568)
Dealer Fold (450,550)
SB Fold (557,240)
BB Checks (182,299)

Total Pot: 66,000

Flop: Kc 6d 3d

BB Checks
UTG+1 [Hero] Bets 48,000
BB Re-Raise all-in 182,299
UTG+1 [Hero] Calls 134,299

BB shows KhTc, Top pair with 10 kicker.

Kc 6d 3d Ks Qc

BB wins 460,598

Was this the correct move in this situation on my end? I had 38% chance to hit a diamond I believe, however was it right to risk all my chips going for it? At this point in the tournament, most players had over 600,000 by this point and I thought it was an excellent price to pay to potentially double up and be right around the tournament average. I think if I could take it back, I would check instead of leading out; however, I may just be being results oriented. I also feel as though I should've waited for a better hand and possibly a better spot, as it took me around 6-7 hours to get to 20 remaining and I just basically punted my entire stack on a flush draw, even though it seemed like the right move. What's the best play here?
 
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Andrei Korolev

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I think not.One-piece need to make a raise and the flop to play on the situation or on the map.Mistake your call...
 
C

Claws

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Should I fold that hand preflop? I'm not sure if I understand what you mean.
 
PuMa8818

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$10,000 GTD

Field: 20/1360
Blinds: 15,000/30,000 3,000 Ante
Average Stack: 575,000


Cards dealt to Hero [Qd,Jd]

Starting Chips: 316,204
Ending Chips: 100,905


UTG Fold (690,617)
UTG+1 [Hero] (313,204) Call 30,000
UTG+2 Fold (88,472)
UTG+3 Fold (512,568)
Dealer Fold (450,550)
SB Fold (557,240)
BB Checks (182,299)

Total Pot: 66,000

Flop: Kc 6d 3d

BB Checks
UTG+1 [Hero] Bets 48,000
BB Re-Raise all-in 182,299
UTG+1 [Hero] Calls 134,299

BB shows KhTc, Top pair with 10 kicker.

Kc 6d 3d Ks Qc

BB wins 460,598

Was this the correct move in this situation on my end? I had 38% chance to hit a diamond I believe, however was it right to risk all my chips going for it? At this point in the tournament, most players had over 600,000 by this point and I thought it was an excellent price to pay to potentially double up and be right around the tournament average. I think if I could take it back, I would check instead of leading out; however, I may just be being results oriented. I also feel as though I should've waited for a better hand and possibly a better spot, as it took me around 6-7 hours to get to 20 remaining and I just basically punted my entire stack on a flush draw, even though it seemed like the right move. What's the best play here?
it was necessary to reset or if the table is weak-pushat. Limp from an early position with 10BB is a very bad idea, unless you have a monster. And so your game at this stage with your stack should be push / fold. By the way, maybe on all in he would have thrown the cards)
 
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Claws

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it was necessary to reset or if the table is weak-pushat. Limp from an early position with 10BB is a very bad idea, unless you have a monster. And so your game at this stage with your stack should be push / fold. By the way, maybe on all in he would have thrown the cards)


Yes I agree, I think it was a bad limp and I should really only be looking to shove premium hands and fold marginal hands such as these. With the blinds as high as they were, I just didn't know whether or not this hand deserved to see a flop or not and I wanted to see what I could land. The 4 diamond flush draw clouded my judgement and I never would've been in that situation anyway if I never played the hand at all and folded pre-flop. Such a bad idea to risk so much hard work and effort for a flush draw. Also what do you mean by reset and weak-pushat
 
PuMa8818

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Yes I agree, I think it was a bad limp and I should really only be looking to shove premium hands and fold marginal hands such as these. With the blinds as high as they were, I just didn't know whether or not this hand deserved to see a flop or not and I wanted to see what I could land. The 4 diamond flush draw clouded my judgement and I never would've been in that situation anyway if I never played the hand at all and folded pre-flop. Such a bad idea to risk so much hard work and effort for a flush draw. Also what do you mean by reset and weak-pushat
I meant if the opponents call weakly all in, then you could play push. Translation failed)
 
derek jones

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Lol I woulda went in on it still... gut feelings win me over to much.
 
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Claws

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Lol I woulda went in on it still... gut feelings win me over to much.


Yup that's one of the main reasons why I went with it too. The last 7 flush draws I had earlier in the tournament, I couldn't make a single flush. This one, I felt like I really was about to hit the diamond and that would've most likely brought me to the final table. Just wish I never even put myself in that situation. I think I should've waited and tried to get a better hand such as a strong pocket pair or AKs/AQs. The blinds were just so expensive up to this point that I thought I could make a move with QJs depending on the flop and I chased my draw only to waste 6 hours to place 20th lol.
 
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Why you didn’t raise before flop? If someone calls you will have some kind of information, and you can make better decision how to play post flop
 
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Why you didn’t raise before flop? If someone calls you will have some kind of information, and you can make better decision how to play post flop


The reason I didn't raise is because I didn't think QJs was a strong enough hand to open with in an early position with only 10BB. I really just wanted to see if I could flop a strong hand and potentially double up. I think if I am in this situation again, I should just fold preflop as I wasn't in any danger of losing chips at the time. I wasn't under any immediate need to play the hand at this time and I think it may be a mistake to be playing a hand like that in this spot, especially with only 20 players left. Do you think I should've raised pre? Looking back on it, I really don't think this hand should've been played.
 
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I do not agree with several steps. First, preflop or fold or raise 2.2 bb.Flopp the call is ok but could be smaller.
I think it's not a good move, give the re raise all-in, the big blind routinely raised all-in, counted on the flush draws.38% chance few, not a good call, in this situations.
 
playinggameswithu

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It was a bad limp that turned into an OK limp. You objectively had what is called a mediocre draw but what is subjectively and incorrectly called good draw. Either way you could have waited for a better spot to shove. If you had two overs and flush etc.

Though you need luck to win a tourney and luck was not on your side as it needed to be? Was there a pay jump near? If yes you made a significant mistake if not you did fine.
 
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It was a bad limp that turned into an OK limp. You objectively had what is called a mediocre draw but what is subjectively and incorrectly called good draw. Either way you could have waited for a better spot to shove. If you had two overs and flush etc.

Though you need luck to win a tourney and luck was not on your side as it needed to be? Was there a pay jump near? If yes you made a significant mistake if not you did fine.


There was no significant pay jump yet. The next pay jump was from 11th to 10th. I was trying to pick a spot to develop a deep stack for later, and I definitely made a mistake risking it all on a flush draw here. I wasn't in either SB/BB and should've waited for a stronger hand given my position.
 
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I do not agree with several steps. First, preflop or fold or raise 2.2 bb.Flopp the call is ok but could be smaller.
I think it's not a good move, give the re raise all-in, the big blind routinely raised all-in, counted on the flush draws.38% chance few, not a good call, in this situations.


Yes, I realize now that it was not a good spot. I should've been more patient and waited for a stronger hand. I shouldn't of even put myself in this situation with only 20 players left and being so close to the end of the tournament. It was quite a mistake.
 
fiddlesticks123

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On another day you'd play the hand exactly the same way, hit your flush, take down a big pot and go on to win the tournament. Just on this occasion you didn't get the luck. Personally I would've checked behind on the flop if the villain was prepared to risk giving me a free card. I don't like to play big pots with draws but then I'm more of a conservative player. I probably would've folded QJs UTG+1 to be honest, depending on the table type. I don't think it was a terrible play though because like I said, if you hit you go on to win more money and you had a decent % of hitting. Just my two cents.
 
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One of the other flaws in this situation was thinking that you had a 38% chance to hit a diamond after the flop, when diamonds only comprise 25% of the ENTIRE deck. So, it looks like you were overvaluing your hand significantly.

Like most of the commenters have already said, at that point in the tournament, and with your stack size, you should have been thinking push/fold pre-flop anyways.
 
UberRogue

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You had a 19.6% chance of hitting your 5th diamond. The rule of thumb is you take your outs and multiply it by 2. 13 cards in a suit, you know where 4 are so you had 9 outs. 9x2 being 18 which is fairly close to reality.

This website here explains it all and actually uses a flush draw as the example. As for the odds and % table 3 is what I am referencing.
http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/drawing-odds/

As far as what I would have done it really depends on the table dynamics as well as how many are in the pot with me being utg+1. Just basing it off of everyone folding I assume the table was a little tight and the BB was defending. If that is the case then a raise possibly would have had him fold. However if the table was loose then a fold. Your seeing what the issue is with being utg. You really never know what everyone else is going to do. Where being in position (the BB) he saw you call suggesting a weak hand to begin with. The BB re-raising should have been a red flag.
 
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BnaD

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I think you should have open shoved for your 10 BB or folded. I probably would have shoved. As played I think you have to call, but I think you played it wrong. Should have checked the flop and might have gotten to see a cheap or free river. I think he is calling your shove with K10 off outta the BB with only 5 BB anyway. If checked flop and he jammed turn it's a fold.
 
PaxMundi

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I'm not really a tournament player bu i'm looking to play them more so my best advise here is with 10bb it's a push or fold spot preflop.I'm not sure at what point it becomes a raise rather than a push though and i usually min raise at this stage so i could use some advise on this.
 
iwont20

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You had a 19.6% chance of hitting your 5th diamond. The rule of thumb is you take your outs and multiply it by 2. 13 cards in a suit, you know where 4 are so you had 9 outs. 9x2 being 18 which is fairly close to reality.


He was all in on the flop, so you have to multiply your outs by 4, not 2.
 
Brandlad

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First you should not have entered into the hand but as you did then the best move would have been an All in push so that a fold could happen.
 
anakonda1318

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I think you did not play very well, but that's in the past
 
elflake

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No, the chance of hitting a flush after the flop is 35% ; 19% is just for one card, there are two to come. The actual formula would be : (outs/47) + ( (outs/46)*(1-(outs/47) ) = 34.96% for a flush after the flop.
If you add in your runner-runner chances of a straight, or QQ, JJ, or QJ , against villain's improvement probabilities you're at about 38% to win that hand.
 
nml

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FWIW - Fold/shove charts say that this is a shove. I tend to go more conservative on the bubble so I see what you mean about that, but then you should fold.

You are probably only called by the top 10% of hands - which you have 37% equity against. That also means it’ll fold around 60% of the time (.9^5).

Call it 70k in the pot before you open. Math here is:

(70k x .6) + (313k x .4 x .37) + (-313k x .4 x .63) = 9.5k

That’s somewhat basic since there’s shorter stacks than you, but you get the point. It’s a +EV play, but barely, so I’m fine with a fold here too since we are near the bubble.
 
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you have 10 bb and you limped pre flop.

it's a shove/fold situation.
 
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