Chip EV problem in Spin and Go

I have been playing a lot of spin and go games lately and have been performing well according to my chip EV.
However, lately it has been going down quite fast.
The reason I can find for this is the insane aggressiveness I have encountered.
People are 3 betting all in a lot, they are raising preflop 3x or 4x. Postflop, they are very aggressive as well.

The way I think to play against these people is to wait for a decent hand that I can call their all in with, and this way use their aggression in my favour.

Now, here is the problem.
Let's look at it with an example.
The effective stacksize is 500 and the blinds are 15/30.
Losing two big blinds (because of folding with a weak hand) means losing 60 chips, counting for the full 100% so chip EV goes down 60.
When we do call with a decent holding, most of the times we will be ahead, but not always. Even with AK we only have about 65% equity against a random hand, so let's say on average we might have 55% equity (maybe this is still to high even).
So we call, have an equity of 55%, so for a 1000 chips in the pot, we will win on average 550, meaning a chip EV of 50 for this hand.
The chip EV will be -10 if we fold twice and go all in 55% ahead once.

The stacks are short, so losing a big blind has a bigger impact on the stacksize.
Waiting for a good hand becomes more difficult like this, so I have to widen my range to call all in a bit, which seems to be ok, because they have a wider range to go all in as well.
But somehow it doesn't seem to work in my example, because widening the range means being less times ahead, putting the average equity down even more.

Do I make some mistakes in my thought process here?
How can I have a good chip EV against these kind of players?
Do I have to raise and 3bet more/bigger or going all in myself, to get more fold equity? Even though some of these people don't fold easily either, creating even more all in situations.

I also did the same thing, I played spin and go michos and I did quite well even managed to earn about 160 dollars but then every tournament I had lost I did not miss what cards I had lost and lost so I decided before I left to drop this game and Switch to mtt tournaments

Can nobody help me?
I noticed I can build a nice chip EV over the games, but just a few of these players that go all in all the time push it down so much.

Abramo Della Luce said:

Can nobody help me?
I noticed I can build a nice chip EV over the games, but just a few of these players that go all in all the time push it down so much.

Click to expand...

There is no unique and winning strategy for spin&go!
What buy-in's you are playing the most?
As from my experience, I get the following guides:
- You should be more flexible to switch from tight play to wider range play, depending on the opponents style. If they start with all in the first hand, then it is more likely you should follow wider range hands betting. When the opposite appears - starting with only BB calls or small raises - then it is a signal that you have TAG players on your table;
- If there is x3 or x6 multiplied prize to play, the opponents are more likely to play tight (but it is not a common rule, though);
- Let's say you are somehow reading perfectly your opponents, then you should not underestimate the HU stage - with tighter players you will have less winning percentage, and with loose players you will definitely bag out most of the time!

So, you should welcome those showing freaks! OK, they will have luck sometimes, but on a long run - you will see that the overall cashing will be much higher, if you play correctly.

And here are some statistics from my recent run on 1 USD Spin&Go, where also you could check some hands: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-staking-64/100-x-1-00-usd-spin-328413/

GL!

Dejange said:

There is no unique and winning strategy for spin&go!
What buy-in's you are playing the most?
As from my experience, I get the following guides:
- You should be more flexible to switch from tight play to wider range play, depending on the opponents style. If they start with all in the first hand, then it is more likely you should follow wider range hands betting. When the opposite appears - starting with only BB calls or small raises - then it is a signal that you have TAG players on your table;
- If there is x3 or x6 multiplied prize to play, the opponents are more likely to play tight (but it is not a common rule, though);
- Let's say you are somehow reading perfectly your opponents, then you should not underestimate the HU stage - with tighter players you will have less winning percentage, and with loose players you will definitely bag out most of the time!

So, you should welcome those showing freaks! OK, they will have luck sometimes, but on a long run - you will see that the overall cashing will be much higher, if you play correctly.

And here are some statistics from my recent run on 1 USD Spin&Go, where also you could check some hands: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-staking-64/100-x-1-00-usd-spin-328413/

GL!

Click to expand...

I'm currently playing 7$ games and have played over 1000 games in each level below already.
Thanks for all the advice and I can agree with them all.

My biggest problem though, is that I want to have a good chip EV, so I'm more confident about my play.
Against those aggro players it's very hard to get a good chip EV however.
Folding a few hands and then calling their all in usually doesn't do the trick of getting it higher. Often I find myself in the situation that they go all in multiple hands after each other and then I cal with a decent hand, just to find out I'm dominated. Most of the times I'm ahead though, but these cases put my all in equity lower, so it is somewhere at 52%.
This doesn't compensate for all the blinds I lost folding, which I cannot win back by making them fold, because they don't.
All of this puts my general chip EV lower, while it is my only objective way of seeing how I am performing.

I used to be happy with the maniacs, as usually I was winning those games, but the more I focus on my chip EV, the more I start to think I just got lucky...

I had seen your staking thread before already and went through your hands
Nice hit of the 20$ challenge reward though, never got that and played basically every day, only got a few 2$ (way to less compared to their probabilities).

If you want to see how I'm doing, you can check out the link in my signature.

Abramo Della Luce said:

I'm currently playing 7$ games and have played over 1000 games in each level below already.
Thanks for all the advice and I can agree with them all.

My biggest problem though, is that I want to have a good chip EV, so I'm more confident about my play.
Against those aggro players it's very hard to get a good chip EV however.
Folding a few hands and then calling their all in usually doesn't do the trick of getting it higher. Often I find myself in the situation that they go all in multiple hands after each other and then I cal with a decent hand, just to find out I'm dominated. Most of the times I'm ahead though, but these cases put my all in equity lower, so it is somewhere at 52%.
This doesn't compensate for all the blinds I lost folding, which I cannot win back by making them fold, because they don't.
All of this puts my general chip EV lower, while it is my only objective way of seeing how I am performing.

I used to be happy with the maniacs, as usually I was winning those games, but the more I focus on my chip EV, the more I start to think I just got lucky...

I had seen your staking thread before already and went through your hands
Nice hit of the 20$ challenge reward though, never got that and played basically every day, only got a few 2$ (way to less compared to their probabilities).

If you want to see how I'm doing, you can check out the link in my signature.

Click to expand...

Well, those widen range I am allowing me to play and call/ bet all in would be all pocket pair hands, Ax, K5 and higher, Q7 and higher, suited cards except those like 94, 23, 59, etc. I am not betting on connected hands bellow J9, as well. And that applies mainly during 3-handed play. Once I get to HU - I am trying to adapt my calling range depending the opponents behavior and stack size.

But perhaps I am not telling you anything new I saw and read your thread in its beginning, but forgot to post there. So without subscription to it, I did not had a chance to follow your impressive progress!
I am glad you are doing so well!

Keep going well, gl

HM coach worked

It's bingo poker to me.

Spin help

Hey man. I play spins full time 20 and now 50 euro levels with a chip ev of @50. The truth is that raising from the SB is so exploitable at these depths. Your prob opening the btn too wide, you have to be way tighter than you'd expect. k8o, fold. 89s, fold for example. limp the sb a lot - i limp my whole range 3 handed.