Check raising

used to work years ago, but seems to rarely work any more. When I call a raise, especially from the small or big blind and hit the flop very well, the check raise RARELY pays off.
For example, I will have 85 off-suit in the small blind after a raise and 2 callers. The flop comes 885, and I check, hoping the initial raiser has a high pair. The initial raiser bets, and I then re-raise since there are other people in the hand, because I don't want to give away a free turn card like a jack that could fill someone up.
Then everyone folds and I win a meager pot. Would it be better to just call, even though I am out of positon and he may slow down on the turn? Or do I put out a small bet after the flop, hoping he thinks I just have high pair? I think check raising only seems to work for bluffs, because you are basically telling your opponent you have a monster hand, which is usually the case.
Opinions appreciated and welcomed.

maybe just call and then fire a bet on the turn depending on what comes. Check raising in that spot almost guarantees you have a big pair or have the set. Or maybe you have nothing who knows.

1st off 85? Lol

2nd, the check raise is a line most used to gauge where you opponent is at raher than what u have. For fish it's a way to be cool! For players who have studied a bit it tells us where we really stand in the hand more times than not.
Almost Everytime we c/r we r expecting a fold. If not then realllllly re evaluate the hand.

Hope this helps

i just think its the fact that good players will bet/fold AA multiway v a c/r on an 885 board. and you fold out all of their overcard combos.

It also sounds like sizing may be an issue, or that your c/r range may be extremely unbalanced, ie if you are c/r dry boards with only the nuts we can exploit you by bet/folding extremely thin for value, also if you are c/r on a wet board or one that connects better with the OR opening range then you are more likely to get paid. in your example you have the stone nuts and dont need to worry about people hitting 2 outers

start ch/r bluffing

Check raising , what does it mean ?

Does it do anything to the players playing at the table ?

Is the the time of your check raising against players that know to get out of the hand when check raised ?

Are the player or players in the hand ready to fold if they dont hit or the board scares them off ?

Just some thing to think about .

if we c/r our monsters frequently then we need to c/r bluff a bit also.

personally I dont really see the point of c/r here unless you have a read on our opponent and think he is gonna stack off with an overpair.

Rldetheflop said:

if we c/r our monsters frequently then we need to c/r bluff a bit also.

personally I dont really see the point of c/r here unless you have a read on our opponent and think he is gonna stack off with an overpair.

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yes i like to mix it up sometimes. seems to work better with a bluff.

If everyone folds when you check-raise with monsters then you should clearly be check-raising as a bluff more often.

Construct a balanced and/or polarized check-raise range and see how it works.

stopped caring here..

'For example, I will have 85 off-suit in the small blind after a raise and 2 callers.'

baudib1 said:

If everyone folds when you check-raise with monsters then you should clearly be check-raising as a bluff more often.

Construct a balanced and/or polarized check-raise range and see how it works.

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listen to baudib please!

^ haha

Never really thought about the check raise bluff that much....I guess because it has become a tell to a monster it would work quite often....good call

Ah the check raise bluff is a bit advanced of a move. So much goes into playing this line well. 1st is your villain a calling station, is he a good player, what kind of board hit? Does he fold easy? Will he RR all in with top pair?

So much to c

Consider. It can win you a lot of dead money, yet it is also very dangerous.

I guess like any other bluff situation you just have to be ready to release....I'll be putting it to the test later I think....when the situation is correct of course

darkassassin89 said:

Ah the check raise bluff is a bit advanced of a move. So much goes into playing this line well. 1st is your villain a calling station, is he a good player, what kind of board hit? Does he fold easy? Will he RR all in with top pair?

So much to c

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I agree with darkassassin.. it's an advanced move that you should only use very occasionally in the exactly the right situation. I think it works best against an good, aggressive player who will usually bet when you check, but is also comfortable laying down a hand. Your check-raise also has to represent a hand that seems plausible based on the previous betting and the board, and how you're perceived at the table. Finally, I think it works best when you have already check-raised someone and then shown down a strong hand

So I've experimented with the check raise bluff in several different situations..... I've found that it does not work well against a fish...imagine that!!! In situations where it was against strong players it did pay off but like its been said its not a move to be used regularly and its very situational. Don't know why it never crossed my mind to use this but it made perfect sense once I read it here....thanks

Fish think, WhAT?!?!? I gataaaaa seeee what he has!!! I have bottom pair!!!!

Just bet and it will look like you are bluffing with something like ace high. I think you will have a better chance at getting action if you played the hand this way.

Try betting out more and expect to put in a 3rd bet, if you desire.

in that situation with an 885 flop while you hold 85 I probably wouldn't check-raise the flop. I would probably wait until the turn or even the river to make any big noise because it is unlikely that anyone hit that flop especially since there wasn't much pre flop action. A lot of beginners will shove AK on a flop like that, but most of the time you wouldve heard from them preflop if they had AK or a high pocket pair.

frozensprx said:

in that situation with an 885 flop while you hold 85 I probably wouldn't check-raise the flop. I would probably wait until the turn or even the river to make any big noise because it is unlikely that anyone hit that flop especially since there wasn't much pre flop action. A lot of beginners will shove AK on a flop like that, but most of the time you wouldve heard from them preflop if they had AK or a high pocket pair.

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Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.... check-raising wins you very little here.. wait to show any agrression until the river, hoping beyond hope that someone catches up with a flush or straight.. on the other hand, you might just be lucky enough to have some fish sitting there with KK, continuing to bet every station for you.......

good luck
~Slip

lead all 3 streets in the example

Stop check raising dry flops and you will get paid off more