Changing mtt mentality - "get in the money" vs "ft"

goaldriversv

goaldriversv

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curious to know from the experts of changing one's mentality in mtt. i have a good in the money % at >30% and my mtt roi is over 100%

http://pokerprolabs.com/goaldriversv/MergeNetwork

however, i don't think my final table % is very good (not that i know what's considered good...i think it could be way better). my goal of any mtt is actually not to win, my goal is to make the money first because my strategy is to register as late as possible so as not to play 2.5 hours before registration closes. should i keep playing this way since i'm successful at it and once in awhile making the final table? or is there a change of mentality i should consider to be more aggressive? what's your strategy?
 
JPoling

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Different styles i guess. I could never just try to get in late like that. My strategy is always register and start on time and play through whole tourney solid. My first goal is getting ITM. After that im strictly shooting for final table but keeping on eye on pay structure and other tables when it gets down to about 3-4 tables left i have them all open watching my table and the others.
 
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RamdeeBen

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This is the reason you won't run deep very often because you're playing for ITM first.

You should never be playing to get to the money, it's a pointless waste of your time to be playing MTT's if this is your first statergy because you're giving up on chances to massively chip up. Also regging as late as possible seems a waste because you're giving up your edge. You should always be aiming to win tournaments, not to ladder. I think your ITM% of 30% is ok, your mentality seems wrong though. It's hard to estimate anything from your stats though because your sample size is very small and I don't know how many players on average play each MTT you play. However, I have to point out your strategy shouldn't also include just getting to the FT because if you're getting there to often and not winning, you're probably not playing optimal.

Finishing 9th on a FT or 8th etc is a waste of your time and you may aswell just finish top 50, sure you win a bit extra money but for the time wasted to get there and given top 3 places are really only a successful MTT run anything else is a waste.

You should make less final tables being more aggressive and risking your tournament life more often but you will always go into a FT as one of the chip leaders, thus giving you a chance to win much more often.

Example; I've played 2381 tournaments this year, made final table 227 times and won 185 of those times, 3 times 2nd and 3 times 3rd placed. Obviously rest are wherever else I've busted. If I adopted a FT approach I could probably of reached double or triple the amount of FT's, however I'd have a lower ROI% and less winnings overall.

Your aim should always just be going for the win of every tournament you play, trying to just make the money is often a common mistake and probably one of the worse mistakes and approaches you can take when playing MTT's. Also trying to hit the FT more often is going to be a mistake because more times than not you're going to be one of the shortest stacks, thus wasting your time even more so.
 
Daniel72

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i think an ITM of 30 % in multi table tourneys is way too high (although i am also guilty of 28 % or something this year), the good players, who risk very much for the win have almost always around 14 %
but ok a high ITM reduces variance
 
skiptomyloot

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When I play, I always expect myself to be the one with the most chips on the table. I don't play to get in the money, but I think i understand with what your trying to strategize by signing up late reg. Its a great strategy on Turbo MTT and works for me right before the registration closes. I find it easier to shove preflop and take down blinds & antes.. Plus you only need to play a few hands just to get yourself ranked in. But too play for the money doesn't justify playing a MTT. For me personally, the reason I love playing MTT's is because I like coming out on top and performing well, just dominating every action Im up against and working my way up to the final table. When I play, i always have that mentality of aiming for top 3, that way I only focus on doing my best.
 
goaldriversv

goaldriversv

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great responses thanks, have to let this info sink in. i welcome more responses.
 
tARsh

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I mean, I dont play to cash and have a slightly lower ITM % than many winning players aggregate ~16.5%. Yet have a higher FT % than many, I feel its worth running even a 40.60 when you have a chance to put a stranglehold on a tournament relatively deep that is. Early not worth gambling yourself out... but the FT and top 3 especially payouts are so much stronger its not worth agonizing over a min cash when you are costing shippage equity.
 
goaldriversv

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really appreciate everyone's advice. i've come to the conclusion that i'll do my best to keep my ITM% at 30-40% as it's been. i like the comfort of knowing that i can play for an hour and double my buy in. i'm risk averse so to speak. i'll test trying to get into the mtts sooner (an hr left to go with late registration) rather than the last 5-10 min of late registration to build my stack early. that's obviously what's keeping me from going up the money. however, once i'm in the money, i'll take more risks because the payoffs don't really go up until at least the final table.

always learning...thanks.
 
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What about MTTs with very flat structure?
Usually some promotions (reward) MTTs or MTTs with points buy-in.

If there is like 100 positions paid, but first position is only 10x worth of 100. position.

In such cases, I suppose its reasonable to aim for ITM first. Of course it always help to have big stack and rule the table near the bubble.
 
goaldriversv

goaldriversv

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i don't quite understand what you mean by flat structure. how would i determine if the mtts i play have a flat structure?
 
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bnasp2

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Well, for me structure is more flat if there are more paid positions with less winnings. And also if there are smaller pay jumps.

Like double or nothing is super flat.
WTA is super not flat.

Example:
Last cardschat freeroll on FTP had 67 entrants, 15 places paid, and winner took about 3.5x more then 5th place.

888 freeroll had 44 entrants, only 5 places paid, winner took 9x more then 5th

So the FTP has more flat structure. I suppose that is more popular for casual players, makes then cashing more often = more happy.
 
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Shadowman647

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Playing just to get in the money is frankly a waste of time. If you played only to get in the money, a minimum wage job could pay the same amount for the time you spent getting ITM. Play to hit that FT and if you bust out before then, just know you have the right mind frame for that eventual big win.
 
DonV73

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This is the reason you won't run deep very often because you're playing for ITM first.

You should never be playing to get to the money, it's a pointless waste of your time to be playing MTT's if this is your first statergy because you're giving up on chances to massively chip up. Also regging as late as possible seems a waste because you're giving up your edge. You should always be aiming to win tournaments, not to ladder. I think your ITM% of 30% is ok, your mentality seems wrong though. It's hard to estimate anything from your stats though because your sample size is very small and I don't know how many players on average play each MTT you play. However, I have to point out your strategy shouldn't also include just getting to the FT because if you're getting there to often and not winning, you're probably not playing optimal.

Finishing 9th on a FT or 8th etc is a waste of your time and you may aswell just finish top 50, sure you win a bit extra money but for the time wasted to get there and given top 3 places are really only a successful MTT run anything else is a waste.

You should make less final tables being more aggressive and risking your tournament life more often but you will always go into a FT as one of the chip leaders, thus giving you a chance to win much more often.

Example; I've played 2381 tournaments this year, made final table 227 times and won 185 of those times, 3 times 2nd and 3 times 3rd placed. Obviously rest are wherever else I've busted. If I adopted a FT approach I could probably of reached double or triple the amount of FT's, however I'd have a lower ROI% and less winnings overall.

Your aim should always just be going for the win of every tournament you play, trying to just make the money is often a common mistake and probably one of the worse mistakes and approaches you can take when playing MTT's. Also trying to hit the FT more often is going to be a mistake because more times than not you're going to be one of the shortest stacks, thus wasting your time even more so.

+1 :)

Couldn't agree more. Don't be afraid in this approach and have faith that, even though you will bust more, in the end the top 3 finishes make that all up and you will win more $.
 
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