Card Dead

or3o1990

or3o1990

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Just got done loosing this high buyin mtt online. Most of the tournament I was card dead in my opinion, not to mention that every decent hand I picked up or made was constantly out kicked or dominated. Considering this I feel lucky to go as far as I did but also a bit bummed to finish less than 100 players outside of the money..

This got me wondering what everyone else considers being "card dead". I played around 200 hands that tournament and only saw 4 pp's and I received AJ and KQ a couple of times. Other than that I was pretty much screwed all night.

So tell me where you all draw your line in the dirt? How long do you have to go without a good hand and what do you consider to be a good hand? I know a lot of people like to get loose in deep stack tourneys but obviously a good hand isn't always a good hand depending on position and the action before you etc. Tell me what you think because I need to know for sure if my irritation at my run of cards is valid or if I'm just being a whiney little bitch :D

Thanks all!
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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every hand has the potential to be a good hand post flop...if you just wait for monster type hands then you are going to get pretty frustrated, plus blinded down...and depending on your table, you wont get paid off when you do get a big hand..

try playing wider ranges and getting involved in different spots and make your own fortune, rather than relying too heavily on the dealer...
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

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every hand has the potential to be a good hand post flop...if you just wait for monster type hands then you are going to get pretty frustrated, plus blinded down...and depending on your table, you wont get paid off when you do get a big hand..

try playing wider ranges and getting involved in different spots and make your own fortune, rather than relying too heavily on the dealer...

Yeah, I get what you're saying for sure. I play a pretty wide range of hands when the stack sizes call for it and you're absolutely right about getting action if you've been a nitt all tourney(even though it probably isn't such a big deal at bovada)..

What I'm really wondering is how many junk hands out of 200 is +/- ev? This is a part of variance that I've never really taken into consideration and it makes me curious!
 
limpnfold88

limpnfold88

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Sounds like you're playing way too tight and relying more on the cards than picking good spots to win chips. MTT's are all about accumulating chips in good spots where you can steal blinds and antes and set up large pots where you can bet size accordingly in order to set up for a river jam, regardless of whether or not you have a value hand or a bluff. And if you do have a very nitty table image, not taking advantage of it by 3-betting light pre is an enormous mistake. Whether or not you're getting dealt premium hands is almost irrelevant, your VPIP should be the same regardless (anywhere from 20-30% is profitable). If it's any higher or lower than that, you're either playing too tight or too loose. A perfect balance of tight preflop ranges and aggro post-flop play (TAG) is a good strategy in being successful in an MTT. Try to open more often when there's less players seated, and when the antes kick in you should also be widening your range, since there are considerably more chips in the pot pre to be stolen.
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

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Sounds like you're playing way too tight and relying more on the cards than picking good spots to win chips. MTT's are all about accumulating chips in good spots where you can steal blinds and antes and set up large pots where you can bet size accordingly in order to set up for a river jam, regardless of whether or not you have a value hand or a bluff. And if you do have a very nitty table image, not taking advantage of it by 3-betting light pre is an enormous mistake. Whether or not you're getting dealt premium hands is almost irrelevant, your VPIP should be the same regardless (anywhere from 20-30% is profitable). If it's any higher or lower than that, you're either playing too tight or too loose. A perfect balance of tight preflop ranges and aggro post-flop play (TAG) is a good strategy in being successful in an MTT. Try to open more often when there's less players seated, and when the antes kick in you should also be widening your range, since there are considerably more chips in the pot pre to be stolen.

Thanks for the tips.. I don't 3bet nearly enough but I'm not worried about being too tight. I'm confident in my strategy even though I know it needs some fine tuning..

What I'm asking about is on average out of X amount of hands how many should be premium and how many should be trash? The aggressive style you describe is only an option if you have chips.. If you play like that and you're able to push a couple people off of hands and win at showdown a couple of times and add some chips to your stack then great. But if you miss a few flops and get raised out of hands and loose a showdown a couple times your options are severely depleted. Soon you can be in p/f territory then what cards your dealt make all the difference..
 
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We all suffer "dead hand" days - there is no magic number. If you are confident that you are playing your best you just have to accept them.
There will be days when the cards run in your favour - then is the time to ensure you make best use of them to accumulate chips and money. That's when someone else would be complaining about their "dead hands"
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

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Maybe in order to be more objective I should have left out that paragraph with my backstory on the evening..

I realize that some days you'll see more premium hands than other days. One day I was dealt AA,KK,AK,AA all in a row, so I know how it goes..

The only thing I want to know is the real numbers.. What does an average starting hand history look like? The only statistic I know about starting hand probablility off the top of my head is that you're 220:1 to get AA. Also, how far below average do your hands have to be for how many hands for you to consider yourself card dead?
 
jazzaxe

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I don't consider Texas Holdem to be a two card game, but a seven card game. You might consider loosening up your hand requirements when in good position.
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

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uuughh.. I know you're all probably trying to helpful. But the title of this thread is card dead, not am I too tight, should I loosen up? I'm really just looking for some odds regarding starting hands in order to gain some perspective, thanks.
 
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Simple answer is that 200 hands is far too small a sample to base anything on as you need to run 10000's of hands for stats to really hold up. That being said 4 pairs in 200 hands is a little low. Here are some pre-flop stats for you:

Probability of being dealt:
• Any pocket pair: 16 to 1 (5.9%)
• Two suited cards: 3.25 to 1 (23.5%)
• A-K (Big slick – suited or offsuit): 81.9 to 1 (0.9%)
• Any single ace: 5.7 to 1 (15%)
• Pocket Aces: 220 to 1 (0.5%)
• Pocket Aces or Kings: 110 to 1 (1%)

And, just for fun, the odds are 87,897 to 1 (0.01%) against you not being dealt an Ace or a pair for 50 hands.
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

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Simple answer is that 200 hands is far too small a sample to base anything on as you need to run 10000's of hands for stats to really hold up. That being said 4 pairs in 200 hands is a little low. Here are some pre-flop stats for you:

Probability of being dealt:
• Any pocket pair: 16 to 1 (5.9%)
• Two suited cards: 3.25 to 1 (23.5%)
• A-K (Big slick – suited or offsuit): 81.9 to 1 (0.9%)
• Any single ace: 5.7 to 1 (15%)
• Pocket Aces: 220 to 1 (0.5%)
• Pocket Aces or Kings: 110 to 1 (1%)

And, just for fun, the odds are 87,897 to 1 (0.01%) against you not being dealt an Ace or a pair for 50 hands.

Now this is some straight forward and concise information, thank you.

Yes, I realize that 200 hands is a very small sample, it just happens to be roughly how many hands I played that tournament. Either way this is extremely helpful so thank you again!:D
 
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