Cant beat micro stakes SNG on ACR/Black chip! So annoyed!

HerbalEye

HerbalEye

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Ive been reading books, SNG strategy mailing lists,and videos.
But i cant seem to beat micro sngs!!!
Its SO frustrating!
I feel like im playing my best (using all the skills ive learned) but i still cant win!!
Im going to post some hand histories from yesterday where bubbled or finished late.
Literally ANY comments or suggestions are welcome and MUCH appreciated!

I played 6 sng yesterday and only caashed in 1 leaving me with LITERALLY A NEGATIVE $6.66 PROFIT like wtf!



#1 BUBBLE 6MAX- This hand basically sums up this past week.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 100/200 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 3.94 BB
BB: 10.88 BB
UTG: 10.43 BB
MP: 6.02 BB
CO: 6.88 BB
Hero (BTN): 6.88 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:heart: Q:spade:

fold, fold, CO raises to 6.88 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 6.88 BB and is all-in, fold, fold

Flop: (15.25 BB, 2 players) 4:club: 5:spade: 7:club:

Turn: (15.25 BB, 2 players) 6:club:

River: (15.25 BB, 2 players) A:club:

CO shows T:diamond: Q:club: (Flush, Ace High)

Hero shows Q:heart: Q:spade: (One Pair, Queens)

CO wins 15.25 BB

# 2 BUBBLE 6MAX

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 50/100 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 17.67 BB
Hero (UTG): 10.81 BB
CO: 31.11 BB
BTN: 9.1 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:heart: 8:diamond:

Hero raises to 10.81 BB and is all-in, CO raises to 31.11 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 9.1 BB and is all-in, fold, fold

Flop: (32.22 BB, 3 players) Q:heart: T:club: J:club:

Turn: (32.22 BB, 3 players) 4:club:

River: (32.22 BB, 3 players) 7:club:

Hero shows 8:heart: 8:diamond: (One Pair, Eights)

Main Pot [28.8 BB]: (Pre 2%, Flop 7%, Turn 4%)
Side Pot#1 [3.42 BB]: (Pre 50%, Flop 48%, Turn 39%)

CO shows 8:spade: 8:club: (Flush, Jack High)

Main Pot [28.8 BB]: (Pre 2%, Flop 11%, Turn 23%)
Side Pot#1 [3.42 BB]: (Pre 50%, Flop 52%, Turn 61%)

BTN shows T:heart: T:spade: (Three of a Kind, Tens)

Main Pot [28.8 BB]: (Pre 95%, Flop 82%, Turn 74%)

CO wins 32.22 BB



#3 BUBBLE 9MAX

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 75/150 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 9.87 BB
BTN: 19.3 BB
SB: 18.04 BB
BB: 42.79 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:spade: 8:diamond:

Hero raises to 9.87 BB and is all-in, BTN raises to 19.3 BB and is all-in, fold, fold

Flop: (21.23 BB, 2 players) J:heart: 8:club: T:club:

Turn: (21.23 BB, 2 players) 6:club:

River: (21.23 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:

Hero shows A:spade: 8:diamond: (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
(Pre 29%, Flop 19%, Turn 9%)
BTN shows 9:heart: 9:club: (Two Pair, Jacks and Nines)
(Pre 71%, Flop 81%, Turn 91%)
BTN wins 21.23 BB

#4 BUBBLE 9 MAX

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 150/300 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 12.82 BB
Hero (CO): 4.79 BB
BTN: 22.64 BB
SB: 4.74 BB

4 players post ante of 0.08 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.83 BB) Hero has A:heart: 6:heart:

Hero raises to 4.71 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 4.71 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (11.25 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: 3:spade: Q:spade:

Turn: (11.25 BB, 2 players) 5:spade:

River: (11.25 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:

Hero shows A:heart: 6:heart: (One Pair, Sixes)
(Pre 70%, Flop 52%, Turn 0%)
BTN shows 6:spade: T:spade: (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 30%, Flop 48%, Turn 100%)
BTN wins 11.25 BB

#5 (This game was kinda me tilting)
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 25/50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 38.48 BB
Hero (BB): 13.88 BB
UTG: 41.1 BB
UTG+1: 53.06 BB
MP: 28.48 BB
MP+1: 28.5 BB
CO: 28.1 BB
BTN: 38.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: J:heart:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 6 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13.88 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 7.88 BB

Flop: (28.26 BB, 2 players) 2:club: 7:heart: Q:diamond:

Turn: (28.26 BB, 2 players) 4:spade:

River: (28.26 BB, 2 players) Q:spade:

Hero shows A:diamond: J:heart: (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 59%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
BTN shows K:club: Q:heart: (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 41%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
BTN wins 28.26 BB

#6 (The one i cashed but still. WTF!!)
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 100/200 NL - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 18.97 BB
SB: 48.54 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: 9:heart:

SB raises to 2 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (4 BB, 2 players) Q:spade: 9:spade: 6:club:
Hero checks, SB bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Turn: (8 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:
Hero bets 2.67 BB, SB calls 2.67 BB

River: (13.34 BB, 2 players) Q:heart:
Hero bets 6.67 BB, SB calls 6.67 BB

Hero shows K:club: 9:heart: (Two Pair, Queens and Nines)
(Pre 41%, Flop 80%, Turn 5%)
SB shows 6:heart: A:club: (Full House, Sixes full of Queens)
(Pre 59%, Flop 20%, Turn 95%)
SB wins 26.68 BB



P.s Books: Crushing Low Stakes Poker- Mike turner, Winning SNG Poker- Charles Sherwood, Essential Poker Math- Alton Hardin)
 
Last edited:
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trent32la

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A couple things you need to understand if you are grinding STTs.

1. Allin preflop situations are going to be very common, and thus variance short term in SNGs is HUGE.

2. A 6 game sample of STTs is nothing. From my knowledge, a legit sample at 6max turbo STTs is around 5,000 games.

3. The majority of the time in these games, your bustout hand is going to be "standard" as the stack depth gets pretty shallow as the SnG progresses.

4. Your long term ROI in these games is going to be extremely low. A 10% ROI in 6max turbo STTs is considered crushing long term. Most SNG grinders make their money off rakeback.

What is your sample size at ACR STTs currently? These hands just look like standard short term variance. A 6 game sample in these games is going to come down to a lot of luck.
 
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paulsmall007

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Seems like your trying to get value out of middle pairs, you keeping any note on any of these players for future reference, probably running into some regulars in that format.
 
HerbalEye

HerbalEye

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A couple things you need to understand if you are grinding STTs.

1. Allin preflop situations are going to be very common, and thus variance short term in SNGs is HUGE.

2. A 6 game sample of STTs is nothing. From my knowledge, a legit sample at 6max turbo STTs is around 5,000 games.

3. The majority of the time in these games, your bustout hand is going to be "standard" as the stack depth gets pretty shallow as the SnG progresses.

4. Your long term ROI in these games is going to be extremely low. A 10% ROI in 6max turbo STTs is considered crushing long term. Most SNG grinders make their money off rakeback.

What is your sample size at ACR STTs currently? These hands just look like standard short term variance. A 6 game sample in these games is going to come down to a lot of luck.

Thanks for your response.
I think my problem is im not very good at handling variance.
Its like the cards are falling your way, then randomly, you feel like youre playing the same as you were when you were winning, but now nothing falls your way and most of the time there is literally nothing you can do about it

Here is a ~300 game sample which is i know is basically all $1.50 and $3.30 9 max
I know being -$76 (-$126 overall, personal worst atm) sense i started studying and playing sngs isnt a lot money but when im playing an average stake of $1.91 its painful for me to look at when I know i should have an advantage over my opponents but my results dont show that.
what do you think?

tmtn88xyz

http://postimg.org/image/tmtn88xyz/
 
T

tcdukesdood

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A couple things you need to understand if you are grinding STTs.

1. Allin preflop situations are going to be very common, and thus variance short term in SNGs is HUGE.

2. A 6 game sample of STTs is nothing. From my knowledge, a legit sample at 6max turbo STTs is around 5,000 games.

3. The majority of the time in these games, your bustout hand is going to be "standard" as the stack depth gets pretty shallow as the SnG progresses.

4. Your long term ROI in these games is going to be extremely low. A 10% ROI in 6max turbo STTs is considered crushing long term. Most SNG grinders make their money off rakeback.

What is your sample size at ACR STTs currently? These hands just look like standard short term variance. A 6 game sample in these games is going to come down to a lot of luck.

I agree, you win some you lose some, just got to keep on playing and you will get the hang of it. Maybe try turbo sng or hyper turbo.. or normal.
 
westside1950

westside1950

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Once you play a few hundred of those games then you can draw some conclusions. 6 games are nothing, this is all way to much variance affected... Serious poker takes a lot of your time, you cant expect to read a lot of books and make profit ib 6 games...
 
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mauroc711

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The sample is small, if you think that's frustrating, do not know what is waiting for you.

Pushing A8, 88, in these tournaments, naturally you get hit, sometimes you will be winning, lose whit 88 can never be considered "bad bet".
 
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MMarshall89

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Yeah me either...I worked my way up to cash 3rd place in one of the 10$ on demand free rolls on BlackChip Poker for 1.10$. First micro stakes tournament I see I'm in. Wasn't 5 minutes I'm dealt AA. I raise it 4X Blind and get a re raise to all in by AQ. He hits two Qs on the flop and I'm out the tournament. I'm seriously debating on ever taking online poker serious I can't handle these ridiculous variances. Only way I can get up to cash in a free roll or a micro is by playing opposite of my style which includes a wide range of hands so trying to wait on good hands like AA just worries me when AQ's call me all in and hit a set on the flop and then another Q on the river.
 
Speedbruce

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Avoid all-in pre-flop in this S&G as much as you can, its better stay with 5bbs and fold if the flop doesnt improve your hand instead of this coin flips
But there are somedays when its just better to take a hike and go do something else.
 
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Two6JJ

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Review, study and play as much as you can. You will begin to get perspective on variance with the more hands you play. No replacement for experience. As the saying goes good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement. Enjoy the game!
 
dundo84

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In these micro sng's, variance plays a big role, most of the players there like to gamble.
And if they are turbos u will need even more luck.Played a few, no difference to freerolls when i see which kind of players there are.
 
dj11

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IMHO, the micros are the toughest level to succeed at. It's a bit counter intuitive for sure. The range of players is probably the underlying reason. You have rank noobs, and drunken pros and everyone in between, acting on every imaginable whim. They all don't care much about that $2.

You might find more happiness at a higher level, small stakes for instance.
 
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maxdavis4321

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6max turbos yields a lot of variance do to being all in most of the time. Regular structures allow for more post flop play were skill is favored.
 
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ParagonPoker

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You haven't studied enough if you aren't beating them. Best thing is to analyse your own hands, see where you went wrong.
 
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PKRNRS

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All these hands are just variance. Your shoving with sub-par hands and just not hitting anything. This is nothing really and plus you won a game out of six so your on track for an average win rate. SNG are tough and computer programs always seem to favor the larger stack that is all in with you. In my mind it's like 95% of the time you'll lose to a bigger stack that has cards that you should beat. Play a hundred games and you should figure out your win %. Then go back and apply ROI and see how bad it really is.
 
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PKRNRS

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Thanks for your response.
I think my problem is im not very good at handling variance.
Its like the cards are falling your way, then randomly, you feel like youre playing the same as you were when you were winning, but now nothing falls your way and most of the time there is literally nothing you can do about it

Here is a ~300 game sample which is i know is basically all $1.50 and $3.30 9 max
I know being -$76 (-$126 overall, personal worst atm) sense i started studying and playing sngs isnt a lot money but when im playing an average stake of $1.91 its painful for me to look at when I know i should have an advantage over my opponents but my results dont show that.
what do you think?

All I see is a downward slide...Maybe you aren't as good as you think.
 
dbchristy

dbchristy

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Ive has a horrible run myself last ten days hang in
 
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ZingyT

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Have you considered MTT tourneys instead?
Single table tourneys are smaller field, but smaller payout. A top 3 finish in a large mtt usually nets 50-100+ buyins.
 
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