Calls like this are killing me but, Im not sure if its right

dan abnormal · Nov 5, 2011

Ok from the intertops free roll today, chasing is starting to really effect my game negatively but I end up in situations I didnt want to be in and then I usually get faced with harder choices that Im really not sure if I made the right call. Obviously Not since I lost a lot of chips, but I argue in my head that it was the right call but then other will point out that its a very stupid call so FIRE AWAY NO HOLDS BARRED.

I actually told myself dont play a hand until after break but of course I dint listen.. I dont know if Im a fan of this hand but I played it anyways, and then just derailed, but like I said is it the right call to make and its just poker or is just stupid

Hand#27709D1D34000165 - Cardschat $200 Freeroll T10296628 -- Table 1 -- $0/$75/$150 NL Hold'em -- 2011/11/05 - 13:48:36
Seat 1: D0NK***1 ($2,365 in chips)
Seat 2: Makw***2 ($2,496 in chips)
Seat 4: Rush***4 ($2,093 in chips)
Seat 5: buzz***5 ($3,415 in chips) DEALER
Seat 6: dako***6 ($1,600 in chips)
Seat 7: ShawnVinyl ($2,881 in chips)
Seat 10: Lean***10 ($2,845 in chips)
dako***6: posts small blind 75
ShawnVinyl: posts big blind 150
Dealt to ShawnVinyl [Kc,Qc]
Lean***10: folds
D0NK***1: raises to 400
Makw***2: folds
Rush***4: folds
buzz***5: folds
dako***6: folds
ShawnVinyl: calls 250
*** FLOP *** [3c,Tc,7d]
ShawnVinyl: bets 438
D0NK***1: is all in 1965.0000
ShawnVinyl: calls 1,527
D0NK***1: shows [4c 4h]
ShawnVinyl: shows [Kc Qc]
*** TURN *** [7h]
*** RIVER *** [Js]
***SHOW DOWN***
D0NK***1: wins 4,805 with Two Pairs, Sevens and Fours

Dunno since I did get in hand if I should just check flop but then if I get the all in, Im still probably pushing just looking for COLD HARD ADVICE

NEWTDOG101 · Nov 5, 2011

Fold!!! You where in no need to gain chips here, you still have a good stack so no need to force a play. KQs looks good sometime but just isn't the hand right here imo. Then again it wasn't too bad considering what this guy made a move with.

Poker Orifice · Nov 5, 2011

With stack sizes & amount in the middle... (vs. this villain).. I'm probably CRAI on this flop.

As played... 'never folding' here. You're getting 2.14 to1 on the call, meaning from a cEV perspective you need ~32%eq. With two overs & FD.. you have wayyyyy more than enough here to call.. ainec.

jbbb · Nov 5, 2011

c/r AI or bet/call AI is ok IMO. Getting it in on the flop any way you can is ok IMO. I'd prefer the c/r though due to fold equity, you just have to hope he doesn't check behind.

Poker Orifice · Nov 5, 2011

Also, DanAbs, try playing around with PokerStove.
What do we consider villain's range to be here?
Even if it's AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,(& some spazzy stuff ie.99,88,66,55,44),AT
we're flipping vs this range (so... with all those chippies in the middle, & getting over 2to1 pot odds.... it's a no-brainer to call here)

*even if villain's range here is limited (& as tight as) AA-TT+, 77,33,AT You're still ~42% & is still ez call.

dan abnormal · Nov 5, 2011

HOLY F' I got to learn what these terms mean,

Im more lost now than when I asked OK Newt said FOLD, What the hell did you say PO, FOLD or great call, seriously explain (Im reading that your saying in getting 2.14 to 1 or something so I make this call everytime or did I read it wrong) and is JBB saying it was alright call is what iM gathering

Im thinking the fold too but also when I saw that my Q and king were both live then It seemed like a better call to make but I didnt know this when I bet, I figured I was up against AA-JJ

I mean I want to making the calls that are taking me to the next level, I feel one club or one king or queen and im sitting 1st or 2nd for a bit, but I dunno It missed and Im watching now, so BUT AM I MAKING THIS CALL FOR THE BRACELET YOU SEE WHERE IM GOING

PICTURE the scene ALL IN wsop DAN ABs vs DArvin Moon MOON CALLS, OMG HE HITS THE CLUB the braclet is already already around dan abs hand

NEWTDOG101 · Nov 5, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
With stack sizes & amount in the middle... (vs. this villain).. I'm probably CRAI on this flop.

As played... 'never folding' here. You're getting 2.14 to1 on the call, meaning from a cEV perspective you need ~32%eq. With two overs & FD.. you have wayyyyy more than enough here to call.. ainec.

I can understand the call with this % but the only other option he had here was AI or fold. Why cont.? What is villain raising pre and shoving flop with here?

Ok I see your post above! Wow that's tough PO, guess u may be right tho......But imo FOLD this hand here.

baudib1 · Nov 5, 2011

check-shove on flop is standard and probably slightly better but it doesn't really matter as long as you manage to put a lot of chips in the middle and don't fold.

Poker Orifice · Nov 5, 2011

NEWTDOG101 said:
I can understand the call with this % but the only other option he had here was AI or fold. Why cont.? What is villain raising pre and shoving flop with here?

yah.. he didn't 'cbet'.. he donkbet into the raiser (with these stack sizes I'd prefer crai here (DanAbs.. crai = 'check-raise allin' )

SheldonCooper · Nov 5, 2011

This is pretty iffy either way imo. You are calling more than half your stack on a draw, but as said earlier you do have odds and a couple live cards. What kind of reads, if any, do you have on the villain? I probably make this call 90% of the time too though

Poker Orifice · Nov 5, 2011

dan abnormal said:
HOLY F' I got to learn what these terms mean,
which terms?
What the hell did you say PO,
read it over again
Im thinking the fold too
thinkin' wrong
I mean I want to making calls that
?? just check-raise allin... ez game!

read baudib's post (sums it up real simple)

Poker Orifice · Nov 5, 2011

SheldonCooper said:
This is pretty iffy either way imo. You are calling more than half your stack on a draw, but as said earlier you do have odds and a couple live cards. What kind of reads, if any, do you have on the villain? I probably make this call 90% of the time too though

not sure how we see this as 'iffy'?

dan abnormal · Nov 5, 2011

OK SO Your are saying PO that I made the ultra right call and I gotta make this call everytime and see at least it makes me feel better. If youre saying the hard nosed true poker player would make this call, then HELL YEAH

OK WHEN DO YOU NOT MAKE THIS CALLL, if villian has double my stack or is short stacked or do you always make this call

and are you saying THIS WAS an easy all in preflop bet. Why if no clubs or only 1hit the board, Im not sure Id want all my chips in.

baudib1 · Nov 5, 2011

If you think you should fold in this spot you should consider unregistering first.

IDK about preflop, honestly. Based on what PO is saying you can probably 3-bet/call pre or go-and-go (reraise pre, shove flop) although as default I'd only do that vs. CO/BTN/SB.

Flatting pre is OK I guess, folding would be terrible unless preflop raiser was something like a 9/8 nit or something.

Board: Tc 3c 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.162% 46.16% 00.00% 457 0.00 { 4c4h }
Hand 1: 53.838% 53.84% 00.00% 533 0.00 { KcQc }

Board: Tc 3c 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.493% 42.74% 01.75% 72354 2969.00 { 33+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 55.507% 53.75% 01.75% 90998 2969.00 { KcQc }

baudib1 · Nov 5, 2011

also villain should fold pre.

Pascal-lf · Nov 5, 2011

fold pre

JamesDaBear · Nov 6, 2011

Don't donk bet randoms in a freeroll. No point to level or balance your range. You won't play with them long enough in this game or often enough in future games, and nobody's ever deep stacked enough in Cake's turbo structure to make it correct.

I have no problem with calling pre. You close the action and his range (unless you know better) is going to include many hands your hand will do well against (small pairs, weak aces, weaker kings). Check-raise all in on that flop... and fist pump if he somehow finds a call and turns over sailboats.

Also... don't post the results of a hand with your hand history. It tends to skew the feedback you might get. Unless you want input on how the villain should have played, save the reveal of his hand until a later time if you think you need further analysis.

Poker Orifice · Nov 6, 2011

dan abnormal said:
are you saying THIS WAS an easy all in preflop bet.

Not sure where you read that in my posts?

jsaw · Nov 7, 2011

Initial call is fine. If you are going to donk bet then have a plan - if you are going to call any raise he makes - then no matter what it is - you are pot committed so shove allin. If you are putting out a donk bet testing the waters and he shoves or raises then you have to make a decision based on information you didn't provide - how he was playing, his opening range, his standard bets (opening,post flop), is his chip stack on the rise or decline, etc. Given you have possible flush outs and two overs - if he was the all too typical loose aggressive/maniac style player in freerolls a call may be warranted. However if he was a rock I would let it go. Final point - you have the 2nd nut flush draw - again the type of player is a huge factor but check calling and seeing the turn as cheaply as possible or check raising allin. The point is you are playing the cards - play the player.

Poker Orifice · Nov 7, 2011

JamesDaBear said:
Don't donk bet randoms in a freeroll. No point to level or balance your range. You won't play with them long enough in this game or often enough in future games,

jsaw said:

Initial call is fine. If you are going to donk bet then have a plan - if you are going to call any raise he makes - then no matter what it is - you are pot committed so shove allin. If you are putting out a donk bet testing the waters and he shoves or raises then you have to make a decision based on information you didn't provide - how he was playing, his opening range, his standard bets (opening,post flop), is his chip stack on the rise or decline, etc. Given you have possible flush outs and two overs - if he was the all too typical loose aggressive/maniac style player in freerolls a call may be warranted. However if he was a rock I would let it go. Final point - you have the 2nd nut flush draw - again the type of player is a huge factor but check calling and seeing the turn as cheaply as possible or check raising allin. The point is you are playing the cards - play the player.

Click to expand...

This is a Cardschat Freeroll which is definitely different than a typical freeroll.... for sure there'll be lots of times you'll see the other players (lots of metagame stuff for sure!).
.... can't see myself ever folding here. Totally agree with 'having a plan' though... ie. if we're donkbetting, we're doing so with intentions of getting it in. If we're checking & villain cbets.. I'm crai 100% of the time here (even vs.'kidkvno', 'buzz' & 'LM' )

Calls like this are killing me but, Im not sure if its right

dan abnormal

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