Calling 20-30bb 3bet all ins?

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xexeu

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Hi all,

I'm constantly getting blocked 3bet with villains of 20-30 bb stacks.
and I see myself doubling up a lot for the 3bet jets bcoz your PRE or PRE bubble or ft in some part of the tournament and I have about the same stack size or if I turn on and lose the flip is to 1/2 my stack or more if I miss the flip.

Now I know this and I have for years your standard to mostly bale PP's with 20-30 bb's bcoz you can make the opener fold a lot and I actually do it on myself by giving the position of the move / to resteal pots / who the opener is tournament size / fold equity etc / stage equity ETC, ETC, ETC.

Now the hands that I try to be opening by folding to these 3bet all in jams are like hand .. Q9s Q9 QKo KQs, A9-A10o AJ aqo small and medium pockets sometimes AKO ..

I've mostly folded these bcoz hands I put villain 3bet jams on meduim PP like 66-99s (mostly I'm right) and I do not want to miss most or my whole life tournamnet on a flip .... but of course they may be doing this with ace rags and some broadways ... and there are good players knowing fold equity and they can maybe push you or hopefully pitching there with your ak, aq etc with PP there .... .

so my question is if your opening hands like I mentioned how a10o ajoaqo ak etc or 99 or would you need your life in the tournament for these 3bet all ins?
 
PaxMundi

PaxMundi

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A good thing to do is range work to see what equity you need.Then you can determine which hands get the correct price to call..
Download equilab.
https://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-software-tools/equilab-holdem/

Lets work on a 20bb stack.

You raise to 3bb
villain jams 20bb
So we have to call 17bb to win 23bb,basically just a little better than even money.

Now we need to find our break even point on the call.And we can do this by adjusting the equity amount and using the equation equity x total pot - call,so it looks like the following.

.41 x 40 - 17 = 0 (or as close to 0 as we can get) , less than .41 equity if we plug it in and do the calculation we will see is -ev more than that is +ev.

So now we know our break even point we want to assign a range for villain let's say 77+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo.Plug that range into equilab (just copy and paste it in) and lets see how certain hands do vs that range.If we compare Q9s we can see it has 34% equity vs that range so we cant profitably make the call.And if we check 88 vs that range we can see 88 has 45% equity so we can make a call vs that range.Try AJs and we can see it has 45% equity so we can make a call.If i check ATs it has 41% equity so we can call.

But what if villain can shove wider lets say 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo.We can now see ATs has 45% equity 88 has 52% equity AJs has 49% equity Q9s still not enough with 39% equity.

So play around with ranges and vary the stack size of the shove.And start to visualize how those hands are doing in certain spots.This isn't an exact science but it's our best educated guess based on the range work we have done away from the tables.

I hope my math is correct it's been a long time since ive been back over any of this type of stuff myself,i believe it's all correct.

Good luck.
 
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xexeu

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Thank you for your help, I'm going down and studying.
 
pepsilv

pepsilv

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Really have to do lots of study in equilab. Really like see when someone can explain something through his studies. That's why I like CC cause many people will share their knowledge and that's where I learn more from poker.
 
makisaa

makisaa

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After playing for 2-3 hours on a tournament the blinds are very high, so many hands are intetesting to try to play them. To go all in is wise to do it when you have the information possitive.
 
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PKRNRS

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20-25 BB i'm looking for a spot to shove. I'm not waiting until i'm less then 20 BB to shove.
 
Ragequit

Ragequit

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Some of these guys are using short stack big hand strategies. They know players are willing to call more often against shorter stacks.
 
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chronical

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Generaly you should be defending 30% of you opening range so thats point 1.
2 - if it's a reg MTT that yoou play try firuing out general ranges of you к ops in thiss situations.
Most people will raise but not push hands like AA-KK, so what Ax and smaller pairs do they push. Icmizer will give you ~88+ AQo+ ranges, but most players push wider, and the gap in equity between ranges that include AKs and rnages that include ATs is huge, 1 would exlude KQs, while 2nd would be happy to call. So try to make a general "field feel".
From personal exp. if you see that the mtt you play is loose ... say A8o from UTG go with the main ICMizer strat 88+ AQs+, but if you see ops being nist shoving only KK+ AK+ just be mind full no to get into AI, as they are dead giveaways =)
And GLGL
 
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