Call or fold?

Dee Dee

Dee Dee

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poker stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1250/t2500 Blinds + t250 - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2387212
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: t148057 M = 28.20
SB: t187640 M = 35.74
BB: t94048 M = 17.91
UTG: t113503 M = 21.62
Hero (MP): t109509 M = 20.86
CO: t98105 M = 18.69

Pre Flop: (t5250) Hero is MP with Qc Tc
UTG raises to t5678, Hero calls t5678, 4 folds

Flop: (t16606) 2s Qd 9h (2 players)
UTG bets t6500, Hero raises to t13000, UTG calls t6500

Turn: (t42606) Td (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t22500, UTG raises to t94575 all in


Villain has been playing fairly solid so far, call or fold?
 
wanderingthehall

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I say fold, he looks like he's been milking you for all the chips he can get. It just screams "monster". Especially since you say he's been playing solid. If this was a bad player, there is a chance he is trying to bluff you, but that's not the case. I'm honestly not sure I like how you called pre-flop. If a solid player raises UTG, that usually signals strength, and pretty much anything he plays will dominate QJs.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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Nice turn card, never folding....he prob has you outkicked or smoked with aces or kings pre but then you hit that on the turn....deffo ship it.....although I would maybe take the free card on the turn to boat up but I still think were good more than not.
 
dealio96

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I say fold as well. Like you said villain is pretty tight and he did raise from utg. If you didn't call with q 10 in middle position you wouldn't be in that spot. That's what I tell myself all the time.
 
R

rumsey182

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dont raise the flop hand is a lot eaiser then

and given those odds you didn't leave yourself room to raise fold you need to call
 
H

houtlijm

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obviously you have to fold here. look at the hands you can beat.. if he is a tight player his kicker is 90% of the time better then yours and if he put ya all in with an open ended well it's just well played of him but you can't take the risk of callling here
 
loafes

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EDIT: I'm obviously tired. Somehow I misread flop as 2Q2
 
AtiFCOD

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Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1250/t2500 Blinds + t250 - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2387212
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: t148057 M = 28.20
SB: t187640 M = 35.74
BB: t94048 M = 17.91
UTG: t113503 M = 21.62
Hero (MP): t109509 M = 20.86
CO: t98105 M = 18.69

Pre Flop: (t5250) Hero is MP with Qc Tc
UTG raises to t5678, Hero calls t5678, 4 folds

Flop: (t16606) 2s Qd 9h (2 players)
UTG bets t6500, Hero raises to t13000, UTG calls t6500

Turn: (t42606) Td (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t22500, UTG raises to t94575 all in


Villain has been playing fairly solid so far, call or fold?

You got a very nice card on turn so it's very tough decision. What you beat is AA/KK, top pair and bluff. There's a high chance of set. So it's 50-50%. But if he's a solid tight player, fold seems to be a better choice.
 
R

rumsey182

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you guys who say fold realize it is only a 1/3 over the pot shove? If your plan is to bet fold in this stack size it needs to be for smaller then, investing so much just to fold when we hit one of the best cards for our hand is just terrible
 
Arjonius

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It's rather late to start asking questions after he shoves. You want to be asking yourself what his range is at each stage of the hand, and using that information as a key factor in choosing your actions. Asking what you should do in a situation you shouldn't be in or didn't need / want to be in isn't exactly ideal.

That said, you can still go through the process of adjusting his range based on his series of actions in order to use that range in deciding whether to call or fold to his shove.
 
rock0001

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well maybe he hits a gutshot straight draw with kj, or maybe villain has a set, its a tough spot here, if he is a solid player as you said, folding can be an option here. in my opinion calling seems to be the best choice here as he could be having ace queen or king queen or maybe aces or kings.
 
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rumsey182

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hey sorry for the delay have been working but this is more a detailed breakdown here about the overall play:

We shouldn't raise this flop:

On a Q9X monotone flop when we raise with Q10s what do we gain from this?

Q8 or worse isnt calling

We are not making QJ fold ( likely)

Also, we are setting up a 1.3-1.4 Pot to stack ratio on the turn if called

this means we are massively leveraging our stack and our hand just isn't the type of hand in our range that we want to do that with

You really would rather be polarized in this situation, either have air or have a nutted type hand you are fine getting in here or on the turn

When you think about betting or raising you also want to think about how often they fold

This situation may in fact be a mildly profitable raise if you assume he has a rather wide range for opening and is cbetting a lot, but given the pot to stack ratio i would prefer either 3 betting pre or flatting here and flatting basically our whole range

The reason is that if we are making a profitable flat, and we put our selves in this spot, we easily have a profitable call and still keep effective positioning

This pot to stack ratio threatens our positional advantage

If his range is bet folding or bet shoving ( which he should be doing more often then not) our hand doesn't matter a ton here

But why take something that is a profitable call and basically turn it into a bluff by opening it up to be shoved on?

Also if we are going to take this line, your sizing on the flop is flawed, we should raise slightly bigger to set up a pot sized raise from him or a pot sized shove from you on the turn

I hope this helps you work this situation and helps to give you insight on what your overall gameplan should be

cheers
 
el_magiciann

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I think he hit his straight draw on turn if his game is solid he will raise right after he hit his hand which i can say is maybe KJ, so you better fold your 2 pairs which is not easy though....
 
el_magiciann

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Only AA or KK are the best hand for you and i think these hands are in villain range pretty much too it is really hard hard fold.
 
J

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don´t see from the data which is the size of the raise measured in blinds

but let´s say utg made a 3x raise, if so, you QT is not a hand to call a 3x raise from utg, he should have a monster or AK or at least QQ, JJ or TT
 
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rumsey182

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don´t see from the data which is the size of the raise measured in blinds

but let´s say utg made a 3x raise, if so, you QT is not a hand to call a 3x raise from utg, he should have a monster or AK or at least QQ, JJ or TT

that is all he has? with only the read of "fairly solid" which isnt overly detailed,...
 
Dee Dee

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Thanks Rumsey, your analysis makes a lot of sense, I will move forward and think differently in these situations in future. I think this hand is strong enough to see a flop with but not to carried away with unless I hit hard e.g. 2 clubs on the flop and/ or 2 cards which give me straight chances.
 
Dee Dee

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As for his range, had he had KK or AA I think this player is re-raising my flop raise, so his flat can really only be at worst QJ and then Qx hands which have me beat, come the turn he is definitely not check raising all in with a one pair hand and since I have top two pair this leaves only sets and KJ in his realistic range. Had I just gone for a flatting line instead of basically turning my hand into a bluff I maybe could have escaped with some chips.
 
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Tiltt2424

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I think he shoves here with a lot of over pairs which seems like that could be what he has since he bet calls on the flop and check shoves on the turn. I don't think he has the draw from his line on the flop and I think his shove is intended to push you off of yours. I would call.
 
Karozi615

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The people who say he has to fold...what are you talking about?
Mistake number one: calling a raise preflop from a tight player UTG with Q10.
It worked out okay because you flopped top pair
Mistake 2: Raising the flop? What? you can't get called by worse and better will never fold - that's one of those "I have no idea what i'm trying to accomplish raises"
Turn- you bink the magical card and snap him off. The only two hands in villains range that can beat you are QQ and 1010. Both are possible, but because you have both outs occupied it becomes less likely. AA, KK are both possible. Could opponent have a set? It is possible. We can beat AQ with a flush draw, that is a DEFINITE possibility. Heck, maybe opponent has AK or JJ and just saw your horrible (and fishy) flop raise and decided you were weak.

I mean, no matter how you look at it this is a snap call. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy.
 
IPlay

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I doubt he is check raising you with TPTK when a scare card comes on the turn, fold.
 
A

alex5207

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This is actually a very tough decision since your tourney life is on the line. In my opinion the only hand hands i could figure him for is TT+ - If he's a solid player not even JJ because he probably wouldn't re-raise you all-in on the turn when you re-raised him on the flop with a Q on the board. Most likely he has AA or KK. I would probably call here since his read on you is probably something like QJ/KQ/AQ - he won't figure you for having two pair, which is also very hard to sniff out of any opponent. If he has QQ you're just dead, but I'd say your hand is too strong to fold here. I'd go for it, but be prepared to loose it to a set. Many players, especially at the low-limit mtt's try to slowplay AA/KK for value regardless of their opponents action, because they figure themselves to have the nuts no matter what.
 
Poker Orifice

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hey sorry for the delay have been working but this is more a detailed breakdown here about the overall play:

We shouldn't raise this flop:

On a Q9X monotone flop when we raise with Q10s what do we gain from this?

Q8 or worse isnt calling

We are not making QJ fold ( likely)

Also, we are setting up a 1.3-1.4 Pot to stack ratio on the turn if called

this means we are massively leveraging our stack and our hand just isn't the type of hand in our range that we want to do that with

You really would rather be polarized in this situation, either have air or have a nutted type hand you are fine getting in here or on the turn

When you think about betting or raising you also want to think about how often they fold

This situation may in fact be a mildly profitable raise if you assume he has a rather wide range for opening and is cbetting a lot, but given the pot to stack ratio i would prefer either 3 betting pre or flatting here and flatting basically our whole range

The reason is that if we are making a profitable flat, and we put our selves in this spot, we easily have a profitable call and still keep effective positioning

This pot to stack ratio threatens our positional advantage

If his range is bet folding or bet shoving ( which he should be doing more often then not) our hand doesn't matter a ton here

But why take something that is a profitable call and basically turn it into a bluff by opening it up to be shoved on?

Also if we are going to take this line, your sizing on the flop is flawed, we should raise slightly bigger to set up a pot sized raise from him or a pot sized shove from you on the turn

I hope this helps you work this situation and helps to give you insight on what your overall gameplan should be

cheers

Great answer!

My suggestion to OP... read thru this response a bunch of times.
 
99asmwsean

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i agree here that you have to call with the two pair. These were the cards you waned to see preflop with such a fishy call anyways, and now you're in two minds! You're only losing to a set here. Though next time don't call an utg raise with such a hand from a tight player. AVOID MAKING THESE TOUGH DECISIONS
 
theRaven68

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You got a very nice card on turn so your two pairs against possible straight or set is very tough decision. But i think that you were playing against AA/KK or other top pair which he was unwilling to fold and he tried to bluff.
my option is to call
 
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