Buy in or satellites

makisaa

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When we want to play to a tournament, we can just pay for buy in, or we can qualify through a satellite. In my case, depends from my bankroll, from the fatigue and the appetite for game.
What do you usually choose? Just buy in or satellite?
 
Andrei Korolev

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If buy-in tournament high play satellites.And a direct Deposit.
 
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Dmutruu89

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personally, I often play satelit. as there you have nothing to lose and no risk. but sometimes I buy a ticket.I believe that there should be patience. every day play sat and no risk.sometimes lucky sometimes
 
antonis32123

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I like very much playing the satellites for the tournaments I want to play , I think it's cheaper for me that way on the long run . I do this on pokerstars and on 888 as well
 
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Aglarion

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It depends on my current bankroll and the buy-in. If I want to play a tournament which exceeds the buy-in allowed by my bankroll management rules I might give a shot to some of it's satellites, otherwise I will just pass.
 
Jester36rus

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Playing satellites is interesting and there is more pleasure to qualify to the tourney from sat
 
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AviCKter

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Does that make sense?

Let's say you're considering to play in the $11 Sunday Storm.(Starting chip 10000)

You saw a satellite that costs $1.10, with 10 seats Guaranteed, average playing field of 300. Now you're like should I play the satellite or should I buy-in directly?

So here's the maths behind it.
Assuming you're a good player with a 10% ROI (in tournaments, which is high to be honest, but okay for $1.10 stakes), 300 players translates to $300 in prize pool, or 27 Seats and chump change. If you're a 10% ROI player, and the payouts are 9%, then it's an easy break-even game for you.

But lets assume you don't have a 10% ROI and want to know whether I should play it or not, as you can see above it pays 9% of the player pool. And with the Buy-in for the satellite, you have 10 buy-in to level with the actual tournament, i.e. you can play 10 times to get into the tournament with the same amount of money to directly buy-in the tournament. So in theory, you just have to win 1 out of every 10 games you play (10:1), in a game that offers 11:1, to get to the requisite tournament.

If you do it in less than 10 games, lets say you played 5 games to get a ticket. So 5 games = $5.50 investment, for the exact chip count as everyone else. That means, when most people's chip would value $0.0011/chip, your chip would value $0.00055/chip. As you can see, before even the game began, you were a winner. And had a huge advantage over the level playing field.


Now, your decision should come down to: If you're a winning player at the stakes the satellites are being offered, then you should play the satellites. If you're not, then direct buy-in (But just for fun).
That said, more number of games you play, the more time you've to invest playing, i.e. more time commitment required.


Hope it makes sense.
 
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maykon98

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I usually buy, very rare to go on satellites, there are tournaments for each type of player. Try to find your style and play your best game!
 
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morigor

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in satellite more fishes....
 
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Forgot to mention: Rule

You should not be playing a satellite for a tournament you don't already have a bankroll for, i.e. if you're playing a satellite for $22 Tournament, you must already have the bankroll for directly buying in on the $22 tournament. Only on rare occasion, when you're feeling like "taking a shot" should this rule be broken.
 
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ph_il

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You should not be playing a satellite for a tournament you don't already have a bankroll for, i.e. if you're playing a satellite for $22 Tournament, you must already have the bankroll for directly buying in on the $22 tournament. Only on rare occasion, when you're feeling like "taking a shot" should this rule be broken.
Why do I need a bankroll of $2.2K to play a satellite for a $22 MTT?

Let's say the satellite buy-in into a $22 MTT is $2.20, then my BR should reflect that buy-in. If I have $220+, then I have a big enough BR to play the $2 satellite entry.
 
Syltan

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In most cases I choose a satellite. I pay for direct only the tournament tournaments, the payment for which does not affect my bankroll
 
A

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Explanation

Why do I need a bankroll of $2.2K to play a satellite for a $22 MTT?

Let's say the satellite buy-in into a $22 MTT is $2.20, then my BR should reflect that buy-in. If I have $220+, then I have a big enough BR to play the $2 satellite entry.

Here's the reasoning:
Because the prize awarded isn't in dollars but an entry, i.e. you cannot go out and buy yourself a beer with it. Sure you got an entry, but the actual value of the game to you was -$2.20.

Now to make some actual money you have to beat the field of $22 tournament, how confident will you be in your game, so as to beat that field? Because the level playing field isn't $2.20, its $22. Yes that comprises of people with years of experience in crushing the level you're playing at right now. And have many more experience playing the level they're playing in.

Now, why do you need to have a bankroll of $220 for a $2.20 game? Because my friend, you understand that even if you're a great poker professional, it still is a gamble (a risk). So you're dividing your risk into 100 different risks than to take it at once.

But let's say, you still become stubborn and decide to put your entire roll into playing satellites. You have a bankroll of $220 and only intend to play $2.20 satellite. That gives you 100 games. Lets say, you're an average player with 10%ROI, i.e. you're beating 1 out of every 10 games.
So your total investment=$220
Your total reward=$220
---------------------------------------------
Break-even, right?

Not really! And here's how, you just traded $220 of real dollars for $220 in tickets, i.e. you have 10 $22 tickets. Now just to break-even, or get your money back, you'll have to finish something like 20th (Pays around $220) in a field of 4000, i.e. your chance is 20/4000=0.5%, in one of these 10 games. Cumulatively you have 5% chance of doing that = 0.5%*10.

What if, you had 20% ROI? Same calculation, you just have 20 tickets now, i.e. 10% chance of getting your money back.

Now my question to you is simple: What would you rather choose?
1. 100% of $220, or
2. 10% chance of making $220

Which has a better EV for you?


I never said, don't play it. Play it for fun, or taking a shot. But don't expect it to garner you a +EV.
 
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Aglarion

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Here's the reasoning:
Because the prize awarded isn't in dollars but an entry, i.e. you cannot go out and buy yourself a beer with it. Sure you got an entry, but the actual value of the game to you was -$2.20.

Now to make some actual money you have to beat the field of $22 tournament, how confident will you be in your game, so as to beat that field? Because the level playing field isn't $2.20, its $22. Yes that comprises of people with years of experience in crushing the level you're playing at right now. And have many more experience playing the level they're playing in.

Now, why do you need to have a bankroll of $220 for a $2.20 game? Because my friend, you understand that even if you're a great poker professional, it still is a gamble (a risk). So you're dividing your risk into 100 different risks than to take it at once.

But let's say, you still become stubborn and decide to put your entire roll into playing satellites. You have a bankroll of $220 and only intend to play $2.20 satellite. That gives you 100 games. Lets say, you're an average player with 10%ROI, i.e. you're beating 1 out of every 10 games.
So your total investment=$220
Your total reward=$220
---------------------------------------------
Break-even, right?

Not really! And here's how, you just traded $220 of real dollars for $220 in tickets, i.e. you have 10 $22 tickets. Now just to break-even, or get your money back, you'll have to finish something like 20th (Pays around $220) in a field of 4000, i.e. your chance is 20/4000=0.5%, in one of these 10 games. Cumulatively you have 5% chance of doing that = 0.5%*10.

What if, you had 20% ROI? Same calculation, you just have 20 tickets now, i.e. 10% chance of getting your money back.

Now my question to you is simple: What would you rather choose?
1. 100% of $220, or
2. 10% chance of making $220

Which has a better EV for you?


I never said, don't play it. Play it for fun, or taking a shot. But don't expect it to garner you a +EV.
I see your point, but you should consider that even tournaments like the sunday million have satelites for less than a dollar, so even if you take a shot everyday you wouldn't be spending a huge bankroll.
 
leshausa03

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If you have no money then you have no choice )
 
A

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Rational decision?

I see your point, but you should consider that even tournaments like the sunday million have satelites for less than a dollar, so even if you take a shot everyday you wouldn't be spending a huge bankroll.

True. But the way you should be looking at it is this, is the money that I'm investing in a satellite, better spent on some other tournament? May be, the game I'm used to currently? Even if the prize pool isn't as FANCY as a Sunday million, but still if you're crushing it, you should be making money in the long run.
I know it's a small amount of money, and you can easily afford it, or your BR doesn't get hampered too much. But this is for the same outlook, why most economist (I'm a Daniel Kahneman-fan boy) ask us to consider it more rationally.
 
imnoobpoker

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Depends on the buy in, high value tournaments -> satellites / low value tournaments -> direct buy
 
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PKRNRS

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I play the satellite if there is money to win on the lower pay outs. You can have the ticket.
 
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C3H6S

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i preffer buy in...sats...mmmm into low cost but fight with player for the seat to the tourney
 
walluyo

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Since there's a lot of players in satellite, i prefer buy in tourney.
 
PHX

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I satelite almost always in holdem, plo or NLo8 sometimes don't have sateilites so forced to buyin. I am real comfortable with the 6 man hyper or the 4 man double shootout. Both are hypers and in my wheel house as to what I play regularly. Normally I try to win more than one seat if your already playing and win a seat you get T$ that way I end up buying into a tourney for free.

Need to be careful with satelite if you are not comfortable or familiar with structure you can end up loosing more than the buy in trying to get in. This sometimes happen to me no matter how good you are at the satelites you will inevitably have a run of bad luck one day.
 
PHX

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Both your posts on this thread were pretty good.

Thanks for the info.

Let's say you're considering to play in the $11 Sunday Storm.(Starting chip 10000)

You saw a satellite that costs $1.10, with 10 seats Guaranteed, average playing field of 300. Now you're like should I play the satellite or should I buy-in directly?

So here's the maths behind it.
Assuming you're a good player with a 10% ROI (in tournaments, which is high to be honest, but okay for $1.10 stakes), 300 players translates to $300 in prize pool, or 27 Seats and chump change. If you're a 10% ROI player, and the payouts are 9%, then it's an easy break-even game for you.

But lets assume you don't have a 10% ROI and want to know whether I should play it or not, as you can see above it pays 9% of the player pool. And with the Buy-in for the satellite, you have 10 buy-in to level with the actual tournament, i.e. you can play 10 times to get into the tournament with the same amount of money to directly buy-in the tournament. So in theory, you just have to win 1 out of every 10 games you play (10:1), in a game that offers 11:1, to get to the requisite tournament.

If you do it in less than 10 games, lets say you played 5 games to get a ticket. So 5 games = $5.50 investment, for the exact chip count as everyone else. That means, when most people's chip would value $0.0011/chip, your chip would value $0.00055/chip. As you can see, before even the game began, you were a winner. And had a huge advantage over the level playing field.


Now, your decision should come down to: If you're a winning player at the stakes the satellites are being offered, then you should play the satellites. If you're not, then direct buy-in (But just for fun).
That said, more number of games you play, the more time you've to invest playing, i.e. more time commitment required.


Hope it makes sense.
 
bra01

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I will just buy in with no more than $50 or I will go for a satellite to win a ticket such as sunday million on pokerstars
 
almaihotz

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If my bankroll dont allow me to play in a higher tournament i'll try a shot in a satellite.Its a good return if i won a ticket with small amount of money to entry a higher game i couldnt afford otherwise.:cool:
 
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