Busted out on the bubble!

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torosanti012

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so i was in a 11 dollar tournament on FTP and i managed to play well and make it into the top 100 out of 850 players. With the bubble being at 90 i told myself to not let other players push me around. I had a above average stack not by a huge amount but. Villain with a big stack on the BTN raises 2.5xBB, SB folds and Me on the BB decided to min raise 3-bet with TT to make the Villain fold his weaker hands and so i didn't have to play out of position. He then raises me all in. I knew the villain (LAG) was playing a more aggressive since the bubble started. I ended up calling for all of my chips and the villain turns AK. He hits a king on the turn and i'm out of the tournament. I know I didn't play the hand well; what advice do you guys have in risking your tournament life, is it worth trying to fight back against aggression or is it better to fold in this kind of situations. any ways to improve bubble play, specially with good hands such a TT +
 
PLAYINBIG

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Okay here is my opinion.He was big stack & had raised you 1st ,he already had pressure & position on you from the button.I would have only called being in the BB to see a flop holding pocket 10's in my hand a being that close to the bubble with a medium stack.Any big stack in position is gonna put pressure on the medium stacks,especially on the blinds & near the bubble trying to win more pots and make you fold.You could have got out of that hand cheaper saved your tourney life & might have improved your hand when the button got to you so you would be in better position to make a better decision.If I had been short stacked and knew I might not make it to the bubble then I would have pushed allin preflop HU against the player on the button like you did.
 
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torosanti012

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yeah thanks so much, i understand now that if i jut call, i can let the pot remain relatively small and also gives me the opportunity to fold if any overcards come or if i believe he has a bigger overpair. This hopefully helps me in future torunaments.
 
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I think in my opinion you played it just fine. Abusing the bubble is what bigstacks do. Most people want to pick up chips and put you to the test with a big stack. First thing, he raised on the button. Meaning he will raise weaker hands. Min raising was a good idea because it will induce bluffs. Unlucky you did run into a good hand and he caught something. You were a 55 45 favourite, so you would have won more often than AK. But you would need to know a bit about his shoving range or have a good read to fold there.
 
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torosanti012

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Thanks for the reply, At the time i felt i did everything wrong, but now i look back i think i probably needed a bit more information on his shoving range. I had not seen many all ins at the table which made that difficult but maybe whenever I don't have any shoving ranges too clear, i will just call see a flop; it could save my tournament life i guess. Since then I've been flipping pretty bad hopefully soon that'll improve.
 
BoddJonar

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We have all been there, if you have above average, play casual against the big stacks and the short stacks. Focus on stealing from the averages since they tend to give up their chips easily.
If only one more needs to go before the money, let the big stacks handle them.

Cheers
 
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Ok. I understand the game is near the bubble. If say the buyin is <$5, I will copy what you did. Either Ill go over the top all-in or call his all-in.
Since the tourney is a $11 tournament, Ill be defensive and wait till the bubble. I will just call here and see the flop. I will evaluate from there next.
 
steveiam

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Ok. I understand the game is near the bubble. If say the buyin is <$5, I will copy what you did. Either Ill go over the top all-in or call his all-in.
Since the tourney is a $11 tournament, Ill be defensive and wait till the bubble. I will just call here and see the flop. I will evaluate from there next.

Why would the buy in make a difference ?...Surely the decision you should make would be the same, unless your being result's orientated.
 
Arjonius

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What did you think his range was when he 4bet shoved?

What odds did you feel you needed to risk your tournament life in that spot?

Once you answer the first question, you can estimate the odds you have with TT vs his est. range. Then compare with your answer to the second question.
 
EvertonGirl

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I don't like to 3bet holding TT so I am just flatting here, see what the flop brings, if I was SS then I would shoved his raise.
 
zegaum

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I think the best move would be to pay and wait for the flop, to get an idea of what to do. Play against an aggressive villain, but with a lot of chips, can compromise a tornieo hitherto played very well. A better opportunity could have arisen after the game.
 
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BUSTED ON THE BUBBLE

I understand you think you played it wrong ,but this all depends how much does 11 dollars and taking down the min cash mean to you.Think about if you would of won the flip would you then be in line to take down the whole thing,with a 2.5
raise from the button it's highly unlikely that he had the monster pairs most people want to make you pay to hit a set or monster flop,this is almost always a coin flip sitituation if you knew you were in a flip and wanted to take down one of the top spots good job ,if your intention was to make the bubble just go ahead and fold everything till your in ,or only take the bets from the stacks that won't damage you.
 
rifflemao

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so i was in a 11 dollar tournament on FTP and i managed to play well and make it into the top 100 out of 850 players. With the bubble being at 90 i told myself to not let other players push me around. I had a above average stack not by a huge amount but. Villain with a big stack on the BTN raises 2.5xBB, SB folds and Me on the BB decided to min raise 3-bet with TT to make the Villain fold his weaker hands and so i didn't have to play out of position. He then raises me all in. I knew the villain (LAG) was playing a more aggressive since the bubble started. I ended up calling for all of my chips and the villain turns AK. He hits a king on the turn and i'm out of the tournament. I know I didn't play the hand well; what advice do you guys have in risking your tournament life, is it worth trying to fight back against aggression or is it better to fold in this kind of situations. any ways to improve bubble play, specially with good hands such a TT +

Been there and played worse. :(

I think you are rarely going to get fold equity by min 3-betting the chipleader in a pot with antes, so you're essentially encouraging him to see a flop where you'll be out of position with a hand vulnerable to overcards.

Because your chips are more valuable close to the bubble, I think you're better off calling\set-mining unless you're down to <10-12 BB, in which case you shove and get unlucky. Plus if you luck out and hit a set on the flop, you're going to get value on all streets. :eating:
 
trolaAa

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i would just call with TT in your case before u re raise u must be sure if the other opponent gets all in like in your case u must be ready to call
 
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Why would the buy in make a difference ?...Surely the decision you should make would be the same, unless your being result's orientated.

Well, $11 is already high buy-in for me. The range for the lowest price on the bubble is something like $17-$20. So if you enter the money, you gain, at the same time youre a live opponent, still has a chance for the big money. So in the above scenario, Ill be more defensive and just call and see the flop.
But if say the tournament is $2, I would gamble here and steal the blinds and even call villain all in as what our hero had done. I dont mind gambling a conflip situation. The range for the lowest price on the bubble is something like $3-$4.

So the gain on the bubble makes a difference. Another is the buy-in itself. Ill be more cautious if its higher.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Well, $11 is already high buy-in for me. The range for the lowest price on the bubble is something like $17-$20. So if you enter the money, you gain, at the same time youre a live opponent, still has a chance for the big money. So in the above scenario, Ill be more defensive and just call and see the flop.
But if say the tournament is $2, I would gamble here and steal the blinds and even call villain all in as what our hero had done. I dont mind gambling a conflip situation. The range for the lowest price on the bubble is something like $3-$4.

So the gain on the bubble makes a difference. Another is the buy-in itself. Ill be more cautious if its higher.

hffjd, it makes no difference given the buyin your play should be relative to your br and a mincash at a 2$ tourny compared to a mincash at a 10$ tourney is going to give the same boost in essence to your br. You should be more concerned with making the correct decisions and not let the buyin effect you. Letting the buyin effect your decision would indicate it would be outside your br and you shouldn't be playing it anyhow.

To OP, as most indicate yes a flat would be the correct play with the TT. A minraise is not getting him out of the pot he would call at minimum if he is a bigstack and you are still out of position having now invested more into the pot. If you really were looking for him to fold you prb had to shove and then u are getting called with AK.

You said it was a K on the turn, what was the flop? Curious as to how it might have gone if you had flat his raise pre to see the flop.
 
Poker Orifice

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How deep are we to begin the hand?
What's our history vs. villain?

3-bet/folding (in this spot) is basically turning our hand into a bluff.

If your 'plan' was to 3b/f in this spot you should just 'call'.
If it was to induce a 4bai, obv. call it off. 'nh'
 
Poker Orifice

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Poker Orifice;2300029[B said:
]How deep are we to begin the hand[/B]?
What's our history vs. villain?

3-bet/folding (in this spot) is basically turning our hand into a bluff.

If your 'plan' was to 3b/f in this spot you should just 'call'.
If it was to induce a 4bai, obv. call it off. 'nh'

??

it makes a big difference
 
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torosanti012

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??

it makes a big difference

Well i was suspecting a fold there because he had been playing a lot of hands and now that he was in position I thought he would play any hand to steal the blinds, once he shoved i assumed his range to be good but not premium.
 
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I busted out on the bubble twice yesterday and I only played in two tournaments. It was so frustrating. I think it's best to just lay low and try and skip in to that cash spot instead of feeling the pressure to gain position as the bubble.
 
mrh2u

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Its definitely hard to swallow being the bubble boy, but there has to some sort of cut off. just b glad it was only $11. lol
 
wanderingthehall

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I think raising was necessary because the villain could have been stealing with just about anything and TT is a strong hand in that situation. It depends on what the stack sizes were, but you could have shoved all in instead of a min 3 bet. I don't like the idea of a min 3 bet, because you want to get rid of higher unpaired cards that can draw out on you, and a min 3 bet might not be large enough to get the villain off of those types of hands.

Also, once villain made his 4 bet shove, I think folding when have been alright depending on how many chips you would have left.

Chip stacks vs blinds make all the difference in this situation.

However, I disagree with the idea that you should just call, because then you don't have any information on what the strength of the villains hand is.
 
eidikos

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nice play.it was a coin flip.you couldnt make him fold with another play.just call and donk bet the flop is also a bad idea i think
 
teepack

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Hindsight is always 20-20, but I think being on the bubble there, and you were above the chip average, the prudent thing to do would be just to call his best and see if you can hit a set on the flop. After that, get the heck out of the hand as soon as you can.
 
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old fashion player here but sometimes old fashion works. if the big stacks want to push you around thats ok they are suppost to. they are bigstacks to you and you are bigstack to someone else. those are the fights you should be in.file that under Nana says
 
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