Bubble time with a short stack

subj. i had yesterday on a 3.3$ MTT. My chips stack was pretty short (about 12BB-14BB) and i kept dealing sort of weird hands you don't know what to do with, like AQs, 99, TT, JJ, KQ and so on. I decided to fold all of them and first get into the money before i do action. Cause with such amount of chips any action probably commits me to the pot, so i can't get away from all-in.
So what would you do on my place? Also tighten up, or you would push those hands and hoping not to become a bubble-boy? It would be interesting to hear your opinions also for lower or higher limits, than that in my example.

alienat3d said:

subj. i had yesterday on a 3.3$ MTT. My chips stack was pretty short (about 12BB-14BB) and i kept dealing sort of weird hands you don't know what to do with, like AQs, 99, TT, JJ, KQ and so on. I decided to fold all of them and first get into the money before i do action. Cause with such amount of chips any action probably commits me to the pot, so i can't get away from all-in.
So what would you do on my place? Also tighten up, or you would push those hands and hoping not to become a bubble-boy? It would be interesting to hear your opinions also for lower or higher limits, than that in my example.

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Hello.
I think:
If you want just first money you should wait. If you want 1st place you should push all this hands.
For big tournaments probably wait,because buyin is big.
If you playing for long distance ,a lot tournaments every week ,you also should wait and fold all this hands to protect your bankroll .
I will not put AQs KQs JJ with 99 TT in same spot. 99 and TT match more wicker hands.

Good Luck

I use to struggle with that same problem for awhile myself, and folded hands I should have played only to barely make it into the money and get blinded out with very poor effective stack size, after some trial and error I learned that busting out wasn't so bad and I rather being playing with an effective stack with a chance to win the tourney not just place. Just my 2 cents best of luck on the felt.

This depends on what the min cash is and how many pay out. If this tournament only pays out 9 and you are sitting as a short stack with 12 left its good to push with those hands. If 100 payout, then I think its okay to fold some of these hands. I still think you can raise fold with 13-14 big blinds.

I would shove all these hands, maybe not KQ depending on position. You should always try to build your stack and give yourself a better chance to win the tournament.

Yea aq suited, 10's and jacks folding whoa, like it's been said if ur happy just min cashing than ok, but everyone wants a deep run. Gotta start making moves and taking some risks. Can't most of those hands aren't risks that's just bad luck if u get out flopped. Irony is how many times have u not played those hands and watched some junk hand win and notice thst u would have won the hand

You should more aggressive at low buy-in tournament.
If you fold with good hand, you will always short stack before bubble.
Even that you are lucky ITM, what you win is a small prize.

Interesting question and something that I somewhat struggle with.

I may min-raise or push depending on the amount of BB, if in good position with a non big stack on the big blind and fold otherwise. You definitely don't want to be the one calling all-ins in this situation imo but to be the aggressor should an opportunity arise as the tournament payout structures are top heavy. Thoughts?

How'd you finish in the tourney btw?

I was in a similar spot in a freeroll just now and threw my short stack all in with an A9o and lost to a Q7... had i waited for an AQ like u had i'd still be in the tourney

alienat3d said:

subj. i had yesterday on a 3.3$ MTT. My chips stack was pretty short (about 12BB-14BB) and i kept dealing sort of weird hands you don't know what to do with, like AQs, 99, TT, JJ, KQ and so on. I decided to fold all of them and first get into the money before i do action. Cause with such amount of chips any action probably commits me to the pot, so i can't get away from all-in.
So what would you do on my place? Also tighten up, or you would push those hands and hoping not to become a bubble-boy? It would be interesting to hear your opinions also for lower or higher limits, than that in my example.

Click to expand...

I'd open shove these hands easily, 100% of the time.

Calling shoves with 99-JJ, AQs. Maybe KQ, but it really depends.

The only way preflop action commits you is if you're just raising/calling raises preflop. And you shouldn't be doing that with a 12-14 BB stack.

As far as bubbling goes, I don't worry about that. I'm more worried about how I'm going to reach final table when I have just a 12-14 BB stack. And I'm definitely not going to reach by fold really strong hands like these. Yes, there is a bit of risk in jamming here because I might lose and get knocked out before the money, but that's ok. I don't care losing 1 buy-in or missing out on an extra buy-in by sneaking into the money. By making aggressive plays here and picking up the pot or having my hand hold up at showdown gives me, not only a better chance to cash, but also a better chance to cash deep where more money is made.

So, there is definite risk when playing the bubble aggressively, but the reward is far more greater.

I understand your question, my friend.

In situations very close to the bubble and with the amount of chips below 10 BB I even avoid getting involved in the hands before the awards.

An example?
I have folded several times K / K and had the proof that I would fall.

I know it's not the best advice, but I still have it and I have not had any problems.

I think it depends on your money situation. If winning money is very important to your bankroll (like if you're just starting out and trying to build up a bankroll), then folding those hands just to get into the money is what I'd do. But if you're looking to win some big money, you've got to push with AQs and 99. Nothing worse than being bubble boy, so get your money in with a good hand.

It ll depends if you are playing to win, or playing to make the money, and what is more important to you. Do a test to see what happens when you play to make the money, or play to win, and then which outcome is more favorable in the long run.

everyone of us have been guilty of playing tight as the bubble approaches. I still am on occasion. You have to ask whether just making the money is what you want or do you want to have a chance at the top3 - where most of the money is.

Lets say you are playing $3 MTT. And you cash 6/10 playing tight around the bubble for 5 small cashes and 1 decent cash. Lets say min cash ranges from $4-6. And your decent cash was a FT worth $20. Now if you played aggressive around the bubble. Lets say you cash only 3 times. One 2ndplace, One 3rd and One 7th. I'd say your ROI and BR will go way way way up. You are cashing 3 less times, but give yourself a better chance to win. So your total would be around $45 total win playing tight. And playing to win prob profited you upwards $150... No these #s are made up, but you get where I'm going with this.

I was in a similar situation last night in the CC free roll. 23 left. 18 cash. i was in 19th or so. I think I had 13BBs MP I shove AJo and get called down by AQ (Had 22bbs) and I whiff. finished 23rd. I think we were 7 or 8 handed. I could have waited, but was not at all upset at the play. I think aggression as the bubble approaches is the correct play.

Also, go to youtube and look up How to win a MTT Poker Tournament. in it they look at Shaun Deeb's results.... Very good video on how to play tournaments.

As stated above by ohshootmybad, we're playing to win the tournament. We should be looking for spots to get chips for a final table push. We can't worry about bubbling if we want to win. Winning flips is part of winning a tournament. Chances are the chips just won't be there to play the hands mentioned the way we want. We just have to jam and hope for folds or holds.
Have a good day.

Great topic. Always shoot for first place that way the bubble will be popped without even thinking about it.

Curious about my own play style... ive noticed i call an EP players raise putting me all in before the bubble pops and lose way too many times. So i guess my question would be this...

With mostly premium hands is it worth calling an EP raise putting me all in close to the bubble? Or would the pros say to toss the hand and wait till I can be the raiser instead of the caller?

boomboxcafe23 said:

Great topic. Always shoot for first place that way the bubble will be popped without even thinking about it.

Curious about my own play style... ive noticed i call an EP players raise putting me all in before the bubble pops and lose way too many times. So i guess my question would be this...

With mostly premium hands is it worth calling an EP raise putting me all in close to the bubble? Or would the pros say to toss the hand and wait till I can be the raiser instead of the caller?

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You said "mostly premium", what's the lowest part of this range?

I agree it can depend on what the min cash is and how many pay out!

A lot of things happenning while when you are at lowest stack in the bubble, most professionals referencing about to all in if you are lower than 10 BB, thats i guess not best decision cauze even AA loosing against 2-3
two pair against 1 pair on river.
I'v did their suggestion and most of the time im loosing at bubble, against luckky cards of opponents, but few times i didnt go with all in on worse hands like small broadways and flash straght draw situations i i ddint make deision .
So iv reach better result when i get analized the opponents, the sily situation when in pokerstars they change the table, sometimes annoying cauze of HM2 HUD upgrading while in the new table again from the start and when you dont know what kind of situation is happening around it's hard to make decisions, new to analyze, grinding- hunting to the weak experience players and out them, when they will get worst hands, but sometimes you are make risk think to about that bet its bluff but you can get that most situations in River.
However your hand is doesnt matter if you dont know how strong your opponent's hand.
You have to explore with stats and also its important of betting patterns of opponent catch that fish out.
But im still on the way exploring the new universe of poker in my field of hobbies....
Bluff catching radicalism make you loose in most situations if you dont know how strong your opponents range!

alienat3d said:

subj. i had yesterday on a 3.3$ MTT. My chips stack was pretty short (about 12BB-14BB) and i kept dealing sort of weird hands you don't know what to do with, like AQs, 99, TT, JJ, KQ and so on. I decided to fold all of them and first get into the money before i do action. Cause with such amount of chips any action probably commits me to the pot, so i can't get away from all-in.
So what would you do on my place? Also tighten up, or you would push those hands and hoping not to become a bubble-boy? It would be interesting to hear your opinions also for lower or higher limits, than that in my example.

Click to expand...

study push/fold, based on your blinds and action in the hand and position you should go all in, or fold.

A lot of those hands id probably shove with. Chances are being so close to the cash you wont get many callers... youd think. I think FlyingBuddha had the best advice in saying if youre looking to win, shove.. if youre looking minimal then stand pat.