On the bubble, LA bigstack before me

Lilli3

Lilli3

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I don't know how to handle this kind of situation. Loose, involved in every hand, erratic big stack before me. I'm maybe 15bb with another player around the same. The fourth low stack player is passive and blinding out. She sits in front of the big stack.

Big stack is either stealing my blinds or calling from sb. I'm wanting to wait out the low stack. (Actually, I'm not wanting to but I've bubbled out my last three sngs so I'm making myself wait it out.) I can't play against the maniac in any way that I can figure out because I'm getting nothing I feel confident to play against him.

Advice, please?
 
TheKAAHK

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This IMO, is a case of letting prior results influence current decisions. You stated you lost your last three SNG's on the bubble, and are now scared of doing the same. The bigstack probably knows this at this point and is playing ATC knowing you're going to play fit or fold poker, and fold all but your strongest hands.

So you could do one of two things. Either keep folding everything but aces and hope and pray somebody busts before you. OR (and this is the better of the two BTW) you can actually fight back.

You have 15bb's, which nearing the bubble of a SNG (single or multi table?). I'll go with single for now I guess. Anyways, you have 15bb's which though is not alot, but still comfortable near the bubble. Now even though waiting it out might seem like a good optiion, if the other low stack picks up a double-up hand, you are now the short stack, and no longer have the option of waiting someone out.

You must play poker here. If BS (big stack) is raising your blinds alot, 3-bet shove any A8+ hand, any K10+, and PP over 6. He'll soon stop picking on you so much, and you'll be suprised how many times your opponent will fold to this. You'll pick up some small pots to keep you afloat, and you might be called light and get a double-up.

You might also get called and lose, but that's the chance we all take on the table, and if you can't deal with losing on the bubble again, maybe switch to ring games, no bubble there. Just don't play passive/scared just because they have a big stack.

If they're playing the majority of their dealt hands, then I assure you they don't have heat every time.
 
Lilli3

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I know you're right about not playing scared. I kept looking for the opportunity to push back at him but I kept getting rags and knew he was going to call anything I played. He'd been playing any two cards from the start. I wasn't getting A with low kicker or anything I felt ok about using. I hated the thought of going out with rags. Finally, I did get 44 and played it. He called, of course, and doubled me up.

Nonetheless, I was frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to deal with him. I don't generally play passively at the bubble. In fact, the problem I've had busting out the past few times was a matter of taking unnecessary risks there. Finding a good balance is what I'm working on.

It was much more the case that I just didn't know how to handle the situation than not being able to deal with it. I really enjoy single table sngs.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
TheKAAHK

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I know you're right about not playing scared. I kept looking for the opportunity to push back at him but I kept getting rags and knew he was going to call anything I played. He'd been playing any two cards from the start. I wasn't getting A with low kicker or anything I felt ok about using. I hated the thought of going out with rags. Finally, I did get 44 and played it. He called, of course, and doubled me up.

Nonetheless, I was frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to deal with him. I don't generally play passively at the bubble. In fact, the problem I've had busting out the past few times was a matter of taking unnecessary risks there. Finding a good balance is what I'm working on.

It was much more the case that I just didn't know how to handle the situation than not being able to deal with it. I really enjoy single table sngs.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Well in this case, if it really was that bad (and not only have I seen it, I've bestowed it upon others :D ), then you sometimes have to gamble. I also forgot to mention that suited connectors (and to a lesser extent) one-gappers are also suitable for a 3-bet shove in that situation. But even if you push back just once, most BS's will at least slow down on their steals, if only long enough to get some breathing room.

You could also try shoving to isolate against the other SS'ers.

Scenario: You are in BB with K9s. other SS limps in CO, BS in the sb completes. Shove it. The other SS will need some serious heat to call your shove as if they call ind lose they are out, and if they had that bog of a hand, they would most likely have shoved instead of limped. The BS will also need some sort of power to call as well, since you showed strength by shoving over two limps from the BB. Of course, do this too often and you'll be getting called light and essentially be in a flip situation. But used sparingly, this will help to get a little respect and maybe not get shoved around too much.

Sorry if my posts seem long and preachy, tired.
 
Lilli3

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No need to apologize. You don't seem preachy and I appreciate the time you take to respond.

I'm really bleary-eyed myself, at the moment, so I'll be back tomorrow to process your suggestions with a clear head. It's helpful advice so thank you much.
 
TheKAAHK

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You are welcome.

And thank you as well, your post got me thinking about this scenario again, and today I was in the exact same situation so I was good to have it fresh on my mind. I ended up shoving with K10o, got called by the limping BS with Q6o and lost to the queen on the turn. Ah well, at least I went down fighting :D
 
Clambake420

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Good insight on this topic. Ive been in these same situations and found myself struggling and never really gave it to much thought till now. I am good at bubble play when i have chips to be the bully but bubble play when your mid stack with a big and short stack and your the guy being pushed on is a different story. I find myself still being to nitty on bubble situations when facing table aggressor (folding good drawing hands -marginal hands, not raising when i should be 3beting). Good advice, will put this to the test when i find myself in this situation, thanks.
 
Lilli3

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I think that when I'm in a situation like that again, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and open up my range beyond my comfort level...like suited connectors, as you suggest, which would normally feel too risky to play hard on the bubble. Still be selective but not so much and recognize the situation for what it is. One where finessing into the money is not likely to happen.
 
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Playing just to cash seems pointless to me. I always aim for final table, even if it means going all-in on the bubble to try double up and and i lose, i prefer this rather than people hogging the bubble! :p

Just to get slightly more than your buy-in back for hours worth of playing seems crazy. I'd sooner take a few risks on good hands to double up and move within final table..
 
lektrikguy

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Playing just to cash seems pointless to me. I always aim for final table, even if it means going all-in on the bubble to try double up and and i lose, i prefer this rather than people hogging the bubble! :p

Just to get slightly more than your buy-in back for hours worth of playing seems crazy. I'd sooner take a few risks on good hands to double up and move within final table..


I agree with this. But sometimes, especially in MTT, if you cash it takes the pressure off. If you have someone bullying your blinds and it looks like you're the bubble, you have to take a stand. More than likely you're gonna get called, so make it a good spot. 55 or better, any suited ace, KQ,or A9 or better is usually my shoving range in this spot.
 
Lilli3

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It's single table sng. I hear what you're saying about not wanting to play just to cash. I feel exactly the same way. I do think there is value, though, in being judicious about whether it's to my benefit to hang on long enough to get past the bubble. It's not about hitting the cash as much as still having a shot at winning. There have been enough times after hitting the money that I've been able to move my way to a win from low stack position. Not that it's a favorable position to be in and not that I won't try to maneuver away from it.

I had enough of a handle on how this guy was playing that I figured if I could get there, I had a good shot of beating him...which, ultimately, I did. Also, the low stack was extremely passive and it was clear she was very likely to go out without a fight.

However, I didn't like thinking that there might be something I could do to better protect myself . I will open up my range when I hit a situation like this again. And understand that it's a sticky place to be, realize that I'll likely have to gamble and take it in stride.
 
trinitus

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Do not get bullied around, make a stand but make sure that is a hand that u would have a chance with. However if u are close to the bubble i would consider on getting to the money first if i am bulding a bankroll but if u have a good bankroll and can take a chance i would do it. and Take a Stand.
 
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