Blind stealing from tiny stacks

Arcelas

Arcelas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Total posts
103
Chips
0
I stole a bunch of blinds from the micro-stacks last night. a few times, they would push allin, and i would call, getting 3-1 or better on my money. Is this a good play? are there hands that I should not call the allin with?
 
blueskies

blueskies

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Total posts
3,643
Awards
9
Chips
304
If you have a large stack and you’re getting 3 to 1 to call, I would still only call with at least average hands. I.e. don’t call with 10 4 just cuz you’re getting good odds and your stack is big enough to take a shot. If you double him up, his next shove will be more costly to call.

You know that he’s desperate and will be shoving a bunch, so why not wait until you have a decent hand? And if someone else takes him out first, so what? Just wait for the next opportunity.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Total posts
2,206
Chips
0
And here's the thing - you keep doing that too often and of course you run into blinds that will shove back at you out of desperation - BUT everyone gets to see what you were holding. For example if they see you with 36o (which I have stolen blinds with, so I'm not casting stones here), the other guys at the table will make note so you try that later on you get J7 shoving on you. Hell you may even have a pair of Tens on this one, but now this guy flops a Jack with a hand he would have folded to you if he had not noted what you were doing before. And of course it then ends up being YOU calling HIM the donkey, as you are baffled how he could have made such a stupid shove.
So use some descretion and finesse that will allow you to continue to be a thief later when it is going to count for even more.
 
Arcelas

Arcelas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Total posts
103
Chips
0
thanks for all the good advice!
Here is the hand in question:

BetOnline poker game #900632423: Tournament #3428759: Hold'em $40.00/$80.00 - 2011/08/08 20:44 Central Standard Time
Table '3428759-126' 10-Max, Seat #2 is the button
Seat 9: Smokemup (670.00 in chips)
Seat 8: Titleist28 (1910.00 in chips)
Seat 7: eddie23 (1790.00 in chips)
Seat 6: WASKA (5550.67 in chips)
Seat 5: PapaOmaha (7188.00 in chips) - Big Blind
Seat 4: kevdog1 (795.00 in chips)
Seat 3: Jclamarche (425.00 in chips) - Small Blind
Seat 2: spooky38 (6420.00 in chips) - The button
Seat 1: Arcelas (5250.00 in chips)
Seat 0: junior10k (765.00 in chips)
Jclamarche: posts small blind 50.00
kevdog1: posts big blind 100.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Arcelas [CRAP]
PapaOmaha: folds
WASKA: folds
eddie23: folds
Titleist28: folds
Smokemup: folds
junior10k: folds
Arcelas: raises 200.00 to 200.00
spooky38: folds
Jclamarche: raises 375.00 to 425.00 and is all in
kevdog1: folds

At this point should I call?
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Total posts
2,206
Chips
0
I gotta wonder if he's on to you versus actually having a hand. Have you been doing this in front of him for a bit? Did you do it when you were SB and BTN?
I assume you have 2 live cards - lol. You might as well see it through. But be prepared to knock that crap off for a while. Maybe you'll end up at a table (final?) where none of these guys are there - lol - and you can kick it back up again.
 
blueskies

blueskies

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Total posts
3,643
Awards
9
Chips
304
Yes.

But you shouldn’t be min-raising with crap with a short stacker behind you because there’s a good chance he’s gonna shove in desperation. You do have the right odds to call, but I personally don’t like throwing chips away even if I am getting the right odds. If you raise a short stacker, you should have a hand with showdown value cuz it’s likely you’ll have to call a shove.

I, however, don’t mind min-raising a short stacker to entice him to shove if I have a big hand.

With a shit hand, I much rather just fold. The risk and reward is just not worth it.

If you raise too often, people will loosen their range and start pushing back, forcing you into unnecessary showdowns. That’s a common way I see early big stackers blow away their stacks.
 
Arcelas

Arcelas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Total posts
103
Chips
0
yeah that makes sense, and it was pretty much how i lost my big stack.

I'm really more of a cash gamer, i like to pick my spots, and never feel like I have to win a particular hand. It seems like in tourneys, sometimes the +EV play can still be wrong due to bustout concerns. Like calling with a flush draw. In a cash game, I wouldn't care if the play busted me this particular hand, as long as the play was +EV. in tourneys however, I might have to fold a powerful draw, even getting the right price, because losing the hand means I'm out of the tourney.
If my analysis is wrong please correct me.
Peace and Aces.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,598
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
I stole a bunch of blinds from the micro-stacks last night. a few times, they would push allin, and i would call, getting 3-1 or better on my money. Is this a good play? are there hands that I should not call the allin with?
If stacks are short, don't raise into them w stuff you aren't going to be wanting to call their shoves with.. because most likely you'll be priced in (obv. depends on stack sizes & player reads).
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,598
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
I gotta wonder if he's on to you versus actually having a hand. .
Would it honestly even ever matter? Unless the ss is the worst POS player EVER, they're going to believe that HERO is calling them 100% of the time in this spot. (HERO folding here would be a sin.. even w 72o)
 
B

bklynsteve

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Total posts
2
Chips
0
depending on the player never going to min raise a short stack unless ive got AA KK and looking for him to put his chips in the middle even if the pot odds are right to call and im the big stack not even playing just folding trash cards let the other short stacks battle it out and if one of them doubles up so what can take the player out later with a good hand
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Total posts
2,206
Chips
0
Would it honestly even ever matter? Unless the ss is the worst POS player EVER, they're going to believe that HERO is calling them 100% of the time in this spot. (HERO folding here would be a sin.. even w 72o)
Totally depends on how Hero plays. If he is passive enough to fold on it I could shove back on him with ATC (and I have and and seen them fold). You're right - it shouldn't matter and he should call - but that doesn't always happen. That's why the question is valid. Now of course on the other hand a very valid answer would be, "It doesn't matter"
 
jaymfc

jaymfc

R.I.P DJ & Buck
Loyaler
Joined
May 3, 2007
Total posts
16,035
Awards
91
Chips
1,238
passive enough to fold don't usually try to steal blinds do they ? I always see donks with crap trying to steal blinds from very SS players and of course the SS shoves having no other choice . I just lol . but it does screw me and the other players half the time cause they just double them up . can you really get 3 to 1 stealing blinds ?
just my opinion :)
 
Arcelas

Arcelas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Total posts
103
Chips
0
passive enough to fold don't usually try to steal blinds do they ? I always see donks with crap trying to steal blinds from very SS players and of course the SS shoves having no other choice . I just lol . but it does screw me and the other players half the time cause they just double them up . can you really get 3 to 1 stealing blinds ?
just my opinion :)

Just for clarification, you aren't saying that blind stealing is a donk move are you? the two ss in my game had proven that they would lay down to minor raises in the blinds even if the blind was 1/3 of their stack.
 
P

peedee91

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Total posts
177
Chips
0
i dont like it unless its like a kj suited thats the bottom of my range......because you dont want to double them and you dont want to make it look like your obviously on a steal
 
jaymfc

jaymfc

R.I.P DJ & Buck
Loyaler
Joined
May 3, 2007
Total posts
16,035
Awards
91
Chips
1,238
Just for clarification, you aren't saying that blind stealing is a donk move are you? the two ss in my game had proven that they would lay down to minor raises in the blinds even if the blind was 1/3 of their stack.
yes and no , but I wasn't trying to say you are a donk :) . blind stealing is an important part of the game , but in my opinion trying to steal with crap when the blinds are a large part of someones stack is a donk move . many times as a donk who lets his stack get to low before shoving , people have tried to steal my blinds and forced me to call with any two cards and only an idiot would fold at that point . as I said I have seen many try it when we are on the bubble and they just double the ss up and sometimes they come back and take a spot in the money . it's just my opinion right or wrong :)
 
J

JaredHubbard

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Total posts
14
Chips
0
In general it's better to steal from medium stacks as they are less desperate. If you're on the bubble and a small stack really wants to cash it can be a good spot.
 
Top