Bigger Buyin vs Smaller Buyin

You see the same crap over and over in lower limit buyins players calling chips off way to lightly pre flop, Calling Stations and retarded plays....Now I understand the same things happen in bigger buyins also because most of these players also sattied into them, yet (I'm not accustomed to playing $50+ Buy ins), but 1 would think that the players would play a-little more better in them, and not make retarded calls pre flop?

So I want to know does it make all the much of a difference the buy in?


Cuz I know this stuff will also happen in those bigger buy ins but not as frequent or so I would think


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) -

Button (t3000)
Hero (SB) (t3000)
BB (t3000)
UTG (t3000)
UTG+1 (t3000)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t3000)
MP3 (t3000)
CO (t3000)

Hero's M: 100.00

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 , 4
2 folds, MP1 bets t60, MP2 calls t60, 1 fold, CO raises to t320, 4 folds, MP2 calls t260

Flop: (t730) 2 , 8 , 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets t360, MP2 raises to t2680 (All-In), CO calls t2320 (All-In)

Turn: (t6090) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t6090) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t6090

Results:
MP2 had 8 , 6 (full house, eights over sixes).
CO had K , K (two pair, Kings and eights).
Outcome: MP2 won t6090

First hand of that tourney. Absolutely nothing can be gleaned from that hand. IMHO, even if you have thousands of hands for each of those players, those stats will never give you a good read on how either is playing , now, today, in this particular tourney.

However, I'd keep an eye on the 86 guy.

obviously there's idiots on any poker table & also as you move up in buyins you'll obviously run into fewer of them.

How does he fold KK here? Prob doesn't. (doubt a set plays it like this).
Just another goofy hand by a donk. TONS of donks who once they've put even a chip in the pot preflop, they're calling any & all raises, out of pos., doesn't matter... they're clueless.

Pretty sure there's lots of info. to be gleaned from this hand.
micro donkaments are tiltfests... just fire up dozens of them so it means nothing when stuff like this happens.
(gonna check your CC game posts... to see who you've got marked in 'green', lol)
You should come play in the CC HomeGame league - - lots of decent/good players in it, & lots of oppurtunity for thining beyond level1 stuff.

I'm confused. Are you asking if you should move up to a level where people play better???

Actually i do not think that was that random. If i have some confort with the size of my stack and i know the villain is a straightforward nit who cannot let go his big pair, i woud probabely call 13 BBs to win over 150 BBs. I think his intention was to catch at least a draw of some kind but he hit 2 pairs.
Of course you need some good reads on the villan to be positive he will put his stack on the line with AA or KK on a dry board.
In my opinion he could be a fish but also he could be a big shark because in this case math tells me he can be both ways.
IN rush poker calls like this are not a big deal. Why not in other types of poker? So i think crazy moves can be made by pros and they are made. If Doyle calls with 10 2 suited is a genius. Everyone else is a fish?

swingro said:

Actually i do not think that was that random. If i have some confort with the size of my stack and i know the villain is a straightforward nit who cannot let go his big pair, i woud probabely call 13 BBs to win over 150 BBs. I think his intention was to catch at least a draw of some kind but he hit 2 pairs.
Of course you need some good reads on the villan to be positive he will put his stack on the line with AA or KK on a dry board.
In my opinion he could be a fish but also he could be a big shark because in this case math tells me he can be both ways.
IN rush poker calls like this are not a big deal. Why not in other types of poker? So i think crazy moves can be made by pros and they are made. If Doyle calls with 10 2 suited is a genius. Everyone else is a fish?

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Really? So calling the raise to 260 (near 1/10th of eff. stacks) out of pos. with 86 is a go for ya under these circumstances? (math tells me he's a big fish)

There are bad players at every level. I moved up again around Easter of this year and am now playing no tournaments under $100 buyin (other than satellites to bigger games).

At higher buyins, you don`t any longer see the complete monkeys who think that Ax is good for an allin preflop when deep stacked, but you still see plenty of people chasing draws or calling a raise on every street when they are clearly beaten. Having money is no guarantee of an ability to play well.

WVHillbilly said:

I'm confused. Are you asking if you should move up to a level where people play better???

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No I'm just asking for a level where players playing some what understandable is all...Sry if I came across wrongly...I understand you want players to play this horrible, but the thing with micros at-least for me is that you find it's harder to understand there lines for the simple fact that there calls lead to no understanding......I mean forget this hand, but How many times have you encountered pretty dry boards, and the player will have hit it pretty hard....Yes it sounds like it's result orientated but the truth is, I'm more Bewildered & Confused rather then actually thinking this way...Which made me ask the question in the first place

Egon Towst said:

There are bad players at every level. I moved up again around Easter of this year and am now playing no tournaments under $100 buyin (other than satellites to bigger games).

At higher buyins, you don`t any longer see the complete monkeys who think that Ax is good for an allin preflop when deep stacked, but you still see plenty of people chasing draws or calling a raise on every street when they are clearly beaten. Having money is no guarantee of an ability to play well.

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That's well put and I thank your input on it...Congrats on the Level up....I mean, Just so everyone understands where I'm coming from it's very Frustrating to encounter the same beats over and over and over+bad Calls+Unfathomable pushes, with no such understanding of the reason there pushing on a continues basis, which then leads you to be so confused that you must call, only too see that you lost to 39o ....When they shouldn't have even been in the hand in the first place....So I understand What WV is trying to state (At-least I believe I do)....And that's If you can't more or less win at the lower levels then what makes you think you can at the higher levels (I hope that's correct) ....Yet the thing is Your correct Egon when you also state that there's bad players at every level, but I believe that even though they may make Idiotic calls, that they will have a some what closer Style to ABC, rather then the AGKXZI style that you must Try to seperate somehow at the lower/Micro levels...


Once again thx all for the inputs

I've debated a lot about this topic in the past. Imo, you should not drastically change your play for the tons of fish. Make preflop raises bigger.

When debating over size of buy ins, don't think about how many fish are going to be a in a given tournament. In reality, the more fish the better. In the long run, the fish will give you all of their chips. Instead, you should be focusing on how many buy ins you have for a certain level. A good rule of thumb is to have 100 buy ins. So if you are playing $1 tournaments, you should have $100 in your account. This isn't always practical, but IMO you should have at least 50 buy ins for low levels, and once you reach higher buy ins you should have at least 100 buy ins.

eazy489 said:

I've debated a lot about this topic in the past. Imo, you should not drastically change your play for the tons of fish. Make preflop raises bigger.

When debating over size of buy ins, don't think about how many fish are going to be a in a given tournament. In reality, the more fish the better. In the long run, the fish will give you all of their chips. Instead, you should be focusing on how many buy ins you have for a certain level. A good rule of thumb is to have 100 buy ins. So if you are playing $1 tournaments, you should have $100 in your account. This isn't always practical, but IMO you should have at least 50 buy ins for low levels, and once you reach higher buy ins you should have at least 100 buy ins.

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So in this case for me to play $10 levels I would need 1k? Wow Kinda steep no? How come just curious, the Variance in tourneys is that reason?

naruto_miu said:

So in this case for me to play $10 levels I would need 1k? Wow Kinda steep no? How come just curious, the Variance in tourneys is that reason?

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Yes, that`s right. Personally, I am even more cautious than that and I play off 200 buyins. I have $20k+ bankroll. That way, I am never seriously worried or put off my game by a run of bad luck.

Poker Orifice said:

Really? So calling the raise to 260 (near 1/10th of eff. stacks) out of pos. with 86 is a go for ya under these circumstances? (math tells me he's a big fish)

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Looking at sharkscope and PTR he seems like a fish alright. He played from 5NL to 5000NL . He went up to 7K and than lost them all plus 11K .