Big suited connectors, late stage

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neafana

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Hi guys,

I would like your opinion on the following situation:

I was in a late stage of a 3.3 Bounty Builder. I get UTG, QJs, 12BB. UTG+1 was a very active player, calling me all the time playing something like 34/26. We where the last 45 players, blinds 6000/12000. Also the BB had a big stack and he was a bounty hunter (he called all the times the small stacks, even with 43o).

I decided to shove. According to push fold chart on the sites, also Jenifer push fold, the shove was correct.

Also I have seen some decent medium stakes player, shoving JTs and QJs, UTG, like the nuts:).

The guy next to me showed A9o and the BB ATs. Unfortunately, no picture came on the board:) and I've lost it.

I know I was a favorite before the flop came, but would you play like this, every time?
 
AgentXtreme

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Honestly , I don't like the play , despite your oppenent style , QJ UTG I won't shove 12BBs with that or even open , in position it will be correct just 2-3 people acting after you , so you gonna minimize risks .
Fold QJ , be patient and wait for a better spot , UTG 12Bigs best card to shove/open AT+ , this is my opinion and it can be wrong for sure :D
 
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microse

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It’s definitely a pushing hand imo. I believe charts will say the same. I assume antes as well? That reduces your effective BB to fewer than 12, so even shorter stacked than first appears. Not much else you can do. Play too conservatively and wait for better spots and you’ll end up blinding out.
 
drolin

drolin

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I prefer the A5 than JQ, often you will get paid by KJ, JQ and you will win.
 
terryk

terryk

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Never complain about a bad player at your table,invite them.:D
 
elton015

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This style of tourney make us shove more than normal,I think I would shove too because QJ are good cards and when the cards we usualy like appears in our hands,this give us courage to shove.It was a shame you lose but bad beat makes pat of the game.
 
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playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

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UTG is the worst position pre-flop you have what I assume 8 other players yet to act. QJs is not shovable in that position with those circumstances. 8 BB is the recommended shove stack as raising 3x does not make statistical sense.You can also raise,which has more fold equity psychologically, then shove on almost any flop.

Any pocket pair or A9s or better are shovable. From Late position Phill Hellmuth recommends K9s or better to shove, it has to be suited (if you play a lot of all in you will know why.)
 
LazerBoy

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You gotta shove here. I would do the same thing.

With only 12 BBs and UTG, you aren't going to have much left after the blinds past. Most likely you aren't going to get anything better in the next two hands (your BB and SB).

I would shove there 100% of the time.
 
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ph_il

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I like the shove with QJs UTG for 12 BBs. Consider that:

-Blinds are right behind you.
-You're going to jamming wider than QJ after blinds pass if you don't pick up anything better in 2 hands.
-The longer you wait for a "better" hand, the more fold equity you lose. At least jamming 12 BBs means you still have some FE, especially if you have a tight image.
-QJs is a decent hand vs opponents with a wide range. In fact QJs is a slight favorite vs A9o and A10s preflop.
 
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neafana

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I like the shove with QJs UTG for 12 BBs. Consider that:

-Blinds are right behind you.
-You're going to jamming wider than QJ after blinds pass if you don't pick up anything better in 2 hands.
-The longer you wait for a "better" hand, the more fold equity you lose. At least jamming 12 BBs means you still have some FE, especially if you have a tight image.
-QJs is a decent hand vs opponents with a wide range. In fact QJs is a slight favorite vs A9o and A10s preflop.

This was exactly what I had in my mind when I shoved this:)
 
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neafana

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Honestly , I don't like the play , despite your oppenent style , QJ UTG I won't shove 12BBs with that or even open , in position it will be correct just 2-3 people acting after you , so you gonna minimize risks .
Fold QJ , be patient and wait for a better spot , UTG 12Bigs best card to shove/open AT+ , this is my opinion and it can be wrong for sure :D

This is the reason that I have asked this. I know that there people that are insta folding this hand UTG:). To tell you the truth I was folding it also, 2 years ago.

But now, when I saw that all charts are saying to push it, decent regs (profitable ones) are shoving even JTs with 13 15BB from UTG (every time), I said to do it also, 70 80% of the time (depending on players). I won't shove it on a table full of nits or tight players. It's a very big mistake.
 
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mishu

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It was a good shove in my opinion, things like this happen, you should not worry too much!
 
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hkoch7

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I find myself shoving in these scenarios as well. As the game gets later and later, the QJ's and J10's tend to win more in the long run: early on it's viable to take cheap chances on the lower suited connectors. Solid play overall
 
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discintildeath

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I would shove you may not get another good chance with suited connectors. They play well in small tournaments like that where people are likely to call with AX.
 
eidikos

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hi!
it was a good move to shove there.with 12bb you need to act there,you cant wait for a better situation
such coinflips happens all the time.dont stay there
well played!
 
schtiuky

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At that stage of the play and thouse bb.you did well. I lost with AA against KQs in a similar spot. So you can lose or win important is to always play optimum hands on long therm. Now imagine fold thouse bb are in reality 6 or 7 considering anties and the rate of increazing bb. You win with 3-4 bb on another hand that will give you like 2-3 bb and you will be always calld with any cards. Yet double it to 24 and you l be save for a wile
 
wsbar

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Hello guys, I give my opinion of how I would play, it is worth mentioning that I am a beginner, and that any information coming from me may be incorrect. More in that situation, in the final stretch, with QJs in the early position I would particularly only give Call if any player was Allin I Fold. Friend with 12BB we have enough stacks to wait for a hand like QJs in late position. QJs is not a decent hand playing early position, there are a lot of people to act after you. Now a QJs you in the Hijack, Cutoff or Button, can drop the Allin without pain and pity to be happy, and if even in late position you take a Call of AA or KK or AK, have patience and wait your turn, the variance exists and even the best poker players lose. Good luck on the tables.
 
RidersFan

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Totally fine to shove QJ w/ 12bbs and 45 players left in the tournament. If you wait for a “better” spot your just losing fold equity and when you find a better spot you could be only doubling up to 15-16bbs which doesn’t do you a lot of good late in a tournament. Especially since it’s a PKO if wait fold awaiting for a strong hands to shove and then you get the you’ve waiting for with 5-6bbs your going to get called multi-way which isn’t an ideal situation.

You made the right play. You can’t be playing scared in the late stages, you have to make a push for the final table.
 
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