Bet sizing in later stages

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DonkeyDong

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I'm still kind of new to this so please bear with me if I sound dumb, or post this in the wrong place!

So, last night I bust out of the Big $11 with about 200 players left. I raised 2.25x with AQs from early position, as I try to keep the pots small at this stage unless I have a premium pocket. A medium stack calls with 66, I hit top pair with the queen and I'm out to his set.

Was this a bad move or just tough luck? I suppose you can avoid some of these situations with a 3x bet, but I'm trying to weigh that against building pots where I get too committed. I can still my fold my AQ to a shove comfortably, and it will be easier to let go of my hand later on. 2-2.5x works really well for steals at this stage as well, so I like the fact that consistent bet sizing makes me harder to read. What's your thoughts on sizing bets at this stage? Am I just asking to get killed by a speculative hand?
 
PCK

PCK

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Unlucky,what stack you had,how many bb`s? The 2,25x raise is ok at this stage of tournamet.
 
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hffjd2000

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What happen postflop?

Anyway, its just bad luck you got top pair (with good kicker) while he got the set.

With regards to bet sizing, Ill rather choose the standard 3x.
 
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GreatLeslie

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You just got unfortunate to bump into a set, but you should always keep your betting amounts the same size, unless you're betting 3xBB pre-ante and then min-raise when the ante kicks in as it usually holds the same effect.
 
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DonkeyDong

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@PCK I had around 30-35BB. As did he.

@hffjd2000 I knew he was going to bet whatever he held so I checked-raised all in. I had put him on a small pocket or maybe KQs or QJs at best. Unfortunately I was right and he had hit the 6 on the table. What's your reasoning for sticking to the 3x bet, is it to avoid situations like these? I find it's easier to be aggressive and pick up dead money when there's less at stake. But then again, a similar thing has happened to me before and I'll probably stick to 3x for a while and see where that takes me.

@GreatLeslie Yes, the latter is what I've been doing lately.
 
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seghill

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yes - reading the players help - the only way you may have got him out was an all in and that would have cost him so much he may not have wanted to play.
Otherwise 2 1/2 or 3 is the standard raise and if you do that from the start he then won't know if you are just representing a big hand - you have to do it sometimes with lesser chances so they can't read you as having only big cards.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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Bet size was correct.With bigger blinds reduce your pre-flop bet size unless you are confident of winning.If you bloat the pot pre-flop you are committed to a bigger cbet.
Follow up on the flop with a half pot cbet and when he goes all-in ask yourself if a call is worth your tournament life to call with TPTK...
Had you raised 3x he still would have shoved the flop.
Something to keep in mind, "people bluff a lot less than we think."
 
gus201

gus201

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Does bet sizing matter to your opponent ?
does this player call the raise 2.5 or 3 x BB preflop with small to medium pocket ? If he does preflop raise wont matter unless you use the stack size betting strategy.
You stated you keep the pot small is the AQ premium ? If not why you all in ?
If you it is what type of preflop betting would you change to ?
Are you a top pair player and willing to get it all in as soon as you get top pair ?
What does your opponent play for ? top pair 2 pair or better ect ......
What was your table image ? can you use that and is he watching so you can ?
your table image is it what others think and just what you want them to think ?
( most players doent realise what other really think about their table image and run off what the player thinks they should).
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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@PCK I had around 30-35BB. As did he.

@hffjd2000 I knew he was going to bet whatever he held so I checked-raised all in. I had put him on a small pocket or maybe KQs or QJs at best. Unfortunately I was right and he had hit the 6 on the table. What's your reasoning for sticking to the 3x bet, is it to avoid situations like these? I find it's easier to be aggressive and pick up dead money when there's less at stake. But then again, a similar thing has happened to me before and I'll probably stick to 3x for a while and see where that takes me.

@GreatLeslie Yes, the latter is what I've been doing lately.

with the crai... seems like a huge overshove. Did you think you'd get calls from worse? I mean don't you want them to be calling down with worse?
 
rock0001

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you only had bad luck on this hand. you could have raised 3 bb there even 3.5 or 4 bb but due to the fact that blinds are so high at that moment a 2.5bb raise is a good play, maybe you should bet 3 bb next time but the outcome of the hand will probably be the same.
 
yeezus

yeezus

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I woukd stick with thee standard 3x raise here.
 
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RodrigoCL

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This was just bad luck. Bet sizing is OK. However, AQs is most probably a flip if you don't hit an ace or queen. You will be behind all pairs. The good news is that you did hit the flop, which is quite good, and I think going all in there is OK, since you expect to get paid by KQ, JQ or mid to lower pairs. Bad news is that you didn't expect the other guy to have a set. Now, I don't think a 3x bet preflop would have changed things. If I am in the button I will call with ANY pair to an open raise. I will certainly 3bet with top pairs, but the only way I am folding a holding like pocket 6 is if someone open pushes with a stack similar to mine. So then, if you opened push here with your AQs you would have probably had no callers, and you would have just collected the blinds, not a good idea I think. Too risky. It was better to open standard (you did) and hopefully hit the flop (you did) and get going from there. What if instead your AQs you would have been dealt pocket aces? You would have probably played the same, and would have been busted all the same against the set of sixes.
So, the bottom line IMHO is don't worry about your bet sizing. It was pretty standard for that stage. Everything was standard, you raised a good holding, you hit TPTK, you were only called by the button who probably has a wide calling range being in position, everything is set for you to take down the pot, except that your opponent was lucky enough to hit a set. GG.
 
2Pacavelli

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I particularly like 2.2 or less , but there are some cases that has one or more limpers before action , then my various raise according to the number of limpers , sometimes to do a 4x maximum
 
akyurukov

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Well,i like the bet sizing here but only preflop.The post frlo action is what i dont like...35bb's is alot in this stage.im not saying that set vs tptk is easy situation to fold..but ask yourself what i beat if i shove and he calls...
My advice - c-bet 50% flop, i assume he will just call with the set,check the turn for pot control cuz as i already said your both stacks are big enough in that stage,so now after your check i think he is going to bet and depends on the sizing you should consider calling or folding i thnk calling will be okay unless he shoves, and on the river you should check if he's shown strenght or he was trying to float on the turn,now on the river if he best again... you should consider folding because ask yourself whats the chance he is bluffing right now , and if i call what i am beating here...
thats my opinion of that hand.
 
Rawdeal1955

Rawdeal1955

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yup unlucky, all of us have gone into hands like that. See it a lot and late in the game I try to protect the stack in my betting. In mtt things just happen always trying to stay on your game and the old two hands you out, it's a game that changes with a flip of a card. Just stay with it, good cards and good games to you.
 
TeUnit

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think this comes down to your tourney equity and stack depth

ie you dont want to go out with AQ in early position if you have 500 bbs or if you are really close to cashing, but if you were really short.. AQ is strong enough to go
 
D

DeepStack bMAC

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I would prob go with 2.5x after antes kick in but your size is fine. He would've still called 3x most likely. Mainly unlucky, I would've bet the flop instead of x/r as the only thing calling your raise would be hands that crush you. Do you think KQ calls your x/r shove? Doubtful. So bet the flop for value and when he over shoves you can make a decision with much more information.
 
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