Beating them with a stick

Grebbsy

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...is something you're not allowed to do to your opponents but I'm starting to think it's the only recourse left to me.

As detailed in another thread I seem to be permanently surrounded, in the micro-micro-stakes tourneys where I play, by opponents who shove all-in at the least provocation on the first few rounds of a tournament. 75% of them go out due to this but 25% accumulate a stack that can see anything on the table. And that means of course that they insist on seeing everything on the table.

I've been following the advice given to me to sit tight, grit my teeth and call them with the monsters like AA/AK when I get them. A couple of times in the last two days I actually have managed to last past the first few rounds when I got lucky with a hand like this not too far into the tournament.

Progress, yeah? ... well, maybe. The problem I'm having now, at the stage of the tournament where people are no longer going all-in every single hand, is how to play hands where I've flopped what I figure to be the best hand, but am aware that it may not stay the best hand if it goes all the way to the river; like if I've got top pair, but it's only nines, or if I can see straight or flush draws looming.

I always thought that the thing to do in those circumstances was bet high upon seeing the flop to try and drive people into a fold. But I'm not getting anywhere doing that. They just call me, whether I raise anything from minimum to all-in, and then when the river makes their flush or their better pair, the more I've bet to try and drive them out, the less I have left. Tonight was the last straw; I held AKo, flop comes Ks9h8c. Seeing the possible straight draw I go all in, but Mister Deepstack who doubled up three times in the first five rounds calls me on Qh8h and two more hearts come, bang bang, and yet again I'm out before the bubble.

Have I been playing these situations wrong, and should I just trust to my cards to stay good rather than trying to raise my opponents out of the pot?

Or, if I have been playing them right, how -- short of the aforementioned beating them with a stick -- do I make them fold to my raises?
 
Lucothefish

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Get your money in as the favourite and ignore the results.

I repeat, ignore the results.
 
steveiam

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Your playing in the micro's normal poker does not apply.
 
Grebbsy

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Your playing in the micro's normal poker does not apply.

So what procedure would you recommend, if not the normal one? (And by 'normal' do you mean the one I outlined in my initial post?)
 
olliejjc16

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as long as you get your money in ahead you've done nothing wrong, its just variance, which is especially high in large field micro tournaments like this, just keep doing what you're doing!
 
D

doomasiggy

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Your playing in the micro's normal poker does not apply.
It applies more than in the higher stakes.

@ OP: You probably have leaks somewhere, and you're probably paying people off where you shouldn't be. You're in the same spot that I am from the sounds of it, I took a long break from poker and haven't been winning since over a decent sample, but its not because "they always get there" or whatever, it's because we've been making mistakes.
 
steveiam

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A lot of players in the micro's do not understand pot odds or bet sizing or position.So as said previously dont worry about results. If you play enough tourneys you will get your chances for a deep run.
 
steveiam

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It applies more than in the higher stakes.

Cant agree with that statement,you cant tell me people that players at the micro's have a better understanding of the game than players at the higher stakes.
 
D

doomasiggy

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Cant agree with that statement,you cant tell me people that players at the micro's have a better understanding of the game than players at the higher stakes.
Of course they don't. That's why standard poker is so much more profitable in the micro's than it is at the higher stakes.
 
steveiam

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Oh i see where you coming from,sorry for my earlier comment.
 
Poker Orifice

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...is something you're not allowed to do to your opponents but I'm starting to think it's the only recourse left to me.
There's been times when I've wanted to beat them with a baseball bat.
As detailed in another thread I seem to be permanently surrounded, in the micro-micro-stakes tourneys where I play, by opponents who shove all-in at the least provocation on the first few rounds of a tournament. 75% of them go out due to this but 25% accumulate a stack that can see anything on the table. And that means of course that they insist on seeing everything on the table.
There's a ton of these tards, especially in early levels. If a huge overbet makes no sense to you... it's because it most often makes no sense, lol. (I think with some of these tards, the thing is > they think they are actually value-betting in many spots because they're incapable of thinking beyond Level-1 (ie. "I gots ... um.... I'm betting 'POT'.. oh.. I'm ALLIN!".. without having the slightest clue of putting you on a range of hands that would remotely make sense given the situation, action, etc. etc.).

I've been following the advice given to me to sit tight, grit my teeth and call them with the monsters like AA/AK when I get them. A couple of times in the last two days I actually have managed to last past the first few rounds when I got lucky with a hand like this not too far into the tournament.
Progress, yeah? ... well, maybe. The problem I'm having now, at the stage of the tournament where people are no longer going all-in every single hand, is how to play hands where I've flopped what I figure to be the best hand, but am aware that it may not stay the best hand if it goes all the way to the river; like if I've got top pair, but it's only nines, or if I can see straight or flush draws looming.

I always thought that the thing to do in those circumstances was bet high upon seeing the flop to try and drive people into a fold.
Your goal should be to have them call a bet where they'd be making a mistake to do so (you don't want to 'drive them out'... you want to charge them a price that is more than what they should profitably be calling in that situation).
But I'm not getting anywhere doing that. They just call me,
Oh well. If they're making a mistake to be doing so... this is a 'good thing'.
whether I raise anything from minimum to all-in, and then when the river makes their flush or their better pair, the more I've bet to try and drive them out, the less I have left. Tonight was the last straw; I held AKo, flop comes Ks9h8c. Seeing the possible straight draw I go all in, but Mister Deepstack who doubled up three times in the first five rounds calls me on Qh8h and two more hearts come, bang bang, and yet again I'm out before the bubble.

Have I been playing these situations wrong, and should I just trust to my cards to stay good rather than trying to raise my opponents out of the pot?

Or, if I have been playing them right, how -- short of the aforementioned beating them with a stick -- do I make them fold to my raises?
We don't necessarily want them to fold. We want charge them an amount that will not be profitable for them to be calling with (in the longrun). We want to exploit them. We want to take advantage of the mistakes they seem so willing to make (ie. calling down too large of bets w/o having right odds to do so).

Hang in there.
 
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